Thinking Bigger, With Justin Stoddart

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There are many sources of “information” in the real estate industry—for investors and agents alike. But while many of those sources teach and spread a similar message, there are a select few change agents in the industry who truly think differently. In this episode, Jeff interviews Justin Stoddart, author of The Upstream Model, and host of The Think Bigger Real Estate podcast. Justin is a long-time real estate professional who has a powerful message to share about how to think differently—and bigger—to make a difference and build a stronger business. In this conversation, Jeff and Justin discuss what it means to do uncomfortable things, how to stop living below your potential and how to harness the idea that your next client is someone else’s current client.

Episode Transcript

Every week, we got to ask ourselves the question of like, what project Am I tackling this week? And does it make me uncomfortable? uncomfortable in a sense that you shouldn’t be doing it, but uncouple in the sense of like, the people that I admire that have the lives and the businesses that I want, they’re doing this. And oftentimes, when we have that thought, come into our head where it’s like, Yeah, but they’re, they’re further down the road than I am. Yeah, but they’ve been that’s where that’s where we need to stop ourselves to say, Do I want to have what they have or not? Because I can always talk myself into saying, I’m not ready for that. And I’m not ready for that. You’re right, you’re not and they weren’t either when they did it.

Jeff Stephens 

Welcome to racking up rentals, a show about how regular people, those of us without huge war chest of capital or insider connections, can build lasting wealth acquiring a portfolio of buy and hold real estate. But we don’t just go mainstream looking at what’s on the market and asking banks for loans, nor are we posting We Buy Houses signs are just looking for quote, motivated sellers to make lowball offers to. You see, we are people oriented dealmakers, we sit down directly with sellers to work out Win Win deals without agents or any other obstacles, and buy properties nobody else even knows are for sale. I’m Jeff from the thoughtful real estate entrepreneur. If you’re the kind of real estate investor who wants long term wealth, not get rich quick gimmicks or pictures of yourself holding fat checks on social media. This show is for you. Join me and quietly become the wealthiest person on your block. Now let’s go rack up a rental portfolio hey thank you for joining me for another episode of racking up rental Show Notes for this episode can be found at thoughtful our E comm slash e 124. Please do us a big favor by hitting the subscribe button in your podcast app. It really helps fellow thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs to find us and of course make sure that you don’t miss this episode or anything else coming up onward with today’s episode. And in today’s episode, I’m really pleased to share with you an interview I recently did with Justin Stoddard. Now Justin is a longtime real estate industry veteran himself. He works in the title business, especially these days and he’s an author of a book called the upstream model. And Justin was introduced to me by Joey mirre, one of our previous guests, he’s from wealth without Wall Street. And it didn’t take long to figure out why Joey would have introduced us we had kind of a lot in common in terms of our overall philosophies on things. I think you’re gonna get a lot out of Justin’s perspective and his thoughts that he experiences to share in today’s episode, I think you’re gonna find he is a true thoughtful real estate entrepreneur. So without further ado, let’s jump right into this conversation with Justin Stoddard. Justin, thanks for joining me today.

Jeff, it’s a pleasure to spend some time with you. Yeah, absolutely. So,

Jeff Stephens 

you know, you had me on your show very recently, as well. And that was a lot of fun. I think one of the things we really quickly identified was that maybe the context of kind of what we talked about is, is just slightly different. But man, was there a lot of overlap and kind of the sentiment in the spirit of our thoughts and ideas.

Yeah, 100%, it was really enlightening, as I heard you describe how you teach and train and execute yourself personally, on how to go build valuable relationships with people, I thought you were like, actually, like reading a page out of my book, I’m like, this is unbelievable, like we totally are aligned, and how we we build the kind of relationship based networking and negotiation type relationships? So yeah, lots of overlap.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that our word, their relationship is the one we’ll probably end up focusing on most here. But just to zoom out for everybody. Tell us a little bit about you. And how does a guy like you find yourself on a show like this one?

Yeah, that’s a good question. I don’t know. I have no idea. So my background is I was raised in an entrepreneurial family. Both my parents were high school educated, with a lot of grit and a lot of street smarts. And they both build seven figure businesses that nobody in their right mind would have thought they would have, like they just didn’t like that wasn’t their network growing up, right? It’s very small town in Idaho. And then they grew up and just learned how to build business. And it was, it was fun to see as a child, it was inspiring as child to see them do that. And I still learned tons of lessons from them. Kind of very grateful for the university education I got that they never had, but they gave to me growing up just by being around their businesses as a child. And I actually, while going to college, I got interested in the homebuilding industry, and went to work for a high end home builder, and was a project manager and then was a division manager for a niche custom home high end custom home business, did that for a number of years and eventually ended up buying out the book of business of my former employer as he moved his focus really more towards land development. And as I as I did that, I got to the point where I was pretty cool confident in my ability to build a home and was overconfident in my ability on how to attract new clients. And I had to learn really quickly because by that point, I had a wife, a child, and another one on the way. And it was getting real, right like life was getting real is that my boss who I’d worked for had made it look really easy on how to get new business opportunities, many new clients for a custom home business. And in that process, I can overlook that there were some challenges there that it was actually harder than he made it look. And so I uncovered some things as I scrambled pretty quickly on how to out think my competitors because I could not experience them. They’ve been in the business for decades, and I was pretty new. So I had to find some new strategies on how to go upstream and find some key people who would really let me no more business. So that’s kind of where I started that journey. The the crash in the market caused me to make some hard decisions in 2008 2009, I closed my custom home business. I had some mentors at the time, Jeff who said like, if you love this business, it’s going to be about five years before it comes back. Which for 25 year old that seemed like forever me 30 minutes goes by and can’t wait that long. And I actually made the decision not based on that. But just based on the fact that I didn’t love building homes. I love building business and I love developing people not necessarily developing land. So that really became my focus on how I can do that was recruited back into the real estate industry into the title and escrow industry actually, about seven years ago, and applied the same principles to grow my business there that I had uncovered as a high end home builder. And then I began to teach those principles to real estate agents and get the kind of good fortune to almost act as a coach consultant to helping them to implement these these upstream principles. And so I guess that’s how I did a funny show. I wrote a book and people like it so

Jeff Stephens 

yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s awesome. What a journey so you are, you’re hitting this real estate industry from multiple angles, sort of you got surrounded, so to speak, right you did from the home builder side and now from the title and escrow side, and a lot of perspective from the agent side, too. So I guess one of the questions I had is, you know, you know, your books we’re going to talk about your book, you’ve got your Facebook community, you got mastermind you’ve got, you know, your podcast, like where does this drive to contribute so much come from because clearly you you have a real motivation, like try to spread the message of, you know, a certain way to get things done, like where does that come from? Yeah,

I don’t really know where it comes from, but I do know that it’s the way that I’ve been able to encapsulate it and maybe this is where it comes from, is that I’ve I’ve been a student of personal development since I was a teenager and it really became an obsession that I would have my my family would tease me of how many journals I had, because I learned that that was a great way to develop your mind all the books that I’ve ever read by choice, or personal development books and probably still are. And I just got fascinated with this concept that each and every one of us are living well below our potential and that mankind I believe that that’s the greatest untapped natural resource in the world. It’s not oil, it’s not diamond, it’s not gold, it’s it’s actually human potential. That as I as I’ve started to uncover that in myself, it’s even more fun to start to uncover and other people I’m a dad, I’m a coach and a consultant and so all those things when you start to see someone’s vision expand and they’re they start to see themselves start to think bigger and start to realize that they have more potential more possibilities than they thought and to start to see their own kind of vision expand for themselves it’s just super empowering and that’s probably where it stems from is just with a deep desire to kind of wake myself and everyone else around me that I can I can reach wake up wake us up to the fact that there’s a lot more potential inside of us that are currently utilizing

Jeff Stephens 

yeah oh that’s Yeah, we’re very well said and you said the two words there that’s the name of your podcast and after I saw the two words that are your name the first two words I associated with you was were think bigger and so I was gonna ask you if you if you get all these words to choose from the vocabulary Why did you pick those two words? Because I tell you they really resonated with me strongly and I think also even what I’m what I’m trying to do but why did why did think bigger seemed like the right words to express like what you know what, what you’re so interested in helping others accomplish and do for yourself?

You know, it’s funny when I first was starting the podcast, I was trying to come up for come up with a name and a childhood friend of mine who happened to also be at the time the sales manager of the title company I worked for. He were We were brainstorming names. In fact, I said, look, I think we should do a podcast. Cuz I think it’s a good way to get in front of some of the bigger clients that will give us the time of day because they already love their time and escrow people that was that was the initial reason it’s like this is a this is simply a ploy to get in front of people who you know otherwise aren’t artists aren’t interested in in that conversation. And so we thought it was a good idea. And so we began brainstorming names and he said, What if we called it think bigger mastermind. And like, my soul lit up? And I was like, Yes, yes. And I’ve since you know, pivoted the name slightly, so it’s a little more niche focus on think bigger real estate. But ever since he said those words, like something happened inside of you. It’s like, those are mine. Like and I, I’d love to trademark them, but they’re too general for that. But But I want that’s exactly what I want is that when people think Justin Stoddard, they think think bigger and that and that they’re inspired to want to have a bigger life. Right? And I just more income, but more more success and significance, you know, more impact. So yeah, so that’s how it all started. I give him credit, Stevie Eggers, his name, maybe some you know him. Awesome individual. But yeah, ever since that moment, it was like, that’s my mantra. I want to and my mission is help people to think bigger. Yeah. Well, that

Jeff Stephens 

really resonates with me, and, and, and moves me as well. I was thinking, connecting a couple of dots of things you’ve said there, you know, the idea of being a coach, and and then and thinking bigger. And one of the things that when I started becoming when I when I first became the student of coach, after a few months of working with my coach, Greg, I realized that what he was helping me do was think bigger, because it’s sort of like, you know, when people say you don’t know what you don’t know, the sort, you can sort of say the same thing. Like you’re only thinking as big as you realize you could possibly think, right? So I sort of saw myself in this in this particular way, I had like a little box in my mind where I saw myself, but it was only through his questions to me and kind of shining a light that like, Oh, actually, maybe there is a bigger version here. And and, you know, it’s funny, we’re gonna talk about books and stuff. And I talked to a lot of people in the real estate investing industry who say, paying for coaching is ridiculous, because everything you need is available for free in books and podcasts. And I say, well, there’s a lot of really great stuff available in books and podcasts. However, a book Can’t believe in you more than you believe in yourself, a book can’t really help you think you see yourself in a bigger light than you’re currently seeing. And so I love that idea of thinking bigger, and the human interaction that comes with that too, as a coach or as a podcaster. So anyway, maybe that’s neither here nor there. But to me, like that’s, I think, why those words resonate so much with me.

It’s really a beautiful observation, Jeff, because I agree if you really wanted to go out and search out the knowledge, but I agree with you. It’s more than that. It’s when people ask you questions, that helped to open up a blind spot, and we’re driving on the road, we all know, we have a blind spot, we look over our shoulder. There’s blind spots in life that I don’t think we can see on our own, that we actually have to have someone else see for us. And oftentimes, that doesn’t come by them telling us like, hey, you’re you’re thinking small, I think it’s by them asking questions, and then us being observant of other people who are performing at high levels. And we start to realize like, Oh, you mean, that could be my experience, that could be the impact that I have, that can be the business that I built. And we start to have that experience here, right? We these blinders kind of come off. And it’s really hard to do all by ourselves. And I think maybe one could try it and have success with it. But I, I think that if you were to calculate your own dollar per hour, that would be the most expensive form of coaching you would ever pay for is trying to do it yourself, and pay somebody else to help you quickly take those blinders off.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, gosh, yeah. So true. So true. So your book, the upstream model, can you give us kind of a summary of like, what what is, when you say the upstream model? What does that refer

to? Yeah, it refers to this metaphor that I put together, that when I was a high end home builder, again, going back to those days where I was like, Okay, I got this, I got my own company, I’m an, I’m a licensed general contractor. Let’s go like where are my clients that and I pictured myself I mean, I kind of drew the analogy or the metaphor of me, with my fishing pole already to go like showing up here we go. This is my company now. And I’ve got my poll, I’ve got my bait, I’ve got like, I’m ready to put this, this this thing in the water. And I and I go over to the stream, and it’s like, there are kind of people already at all the good fishing holes. And they’ve already got not only their lines in the water, but they kind of got their area of the fishing hole kind of blocked off like no, we’re good. Like you don’t like you can’t come here. This is my fishing hole, right? It’s like how do I get my line in the water, I get my line in the water and so pull some fish out. But boy, there’s a lot of people around this shoreline. And it was obviously a metaphor of getting new business, right? Maybe you’re a real estate agent, maybe you’re a home builder, maybe your insurance agent, maybe your whatever, right? But the space can be crowded, right? Good profession can be crowded. And so we often struggle Getting our line in the water. And if we do get it in the water, you know, pulling fish out. And as I metaphorically stood on that shoreline, I started thinking, Okay, how am I going to do this, and I saw upstream, an architect architectural designer. And I noticed that he was dealing with a lot of clients already. And every one of those clients was going to need a builder next. And the way that it worked is that once he got through the process and got the plans to a certain point, then he would notify the builders that that client wanted to engage and maybe a few other referrals that he had. And he would bring them in to get a set of plans, they’d all go out. And they would put together a bid and they’d come back and they’d present it to, you know, the client. And that was a crowded space because these other people that were on the shoreline, right, they had, like billboards alongside the freeway, big communities, they built like decades of experience. And here I am pretty new in the business. And so I realized, like, well, what if I went up, and I talked to that architect, and my first attempt at doing so was failed, that was botched. It was not good. It was me showing up with my hand out, saying, Hey, I’m a good builder. Here’s so my cards, here’s some of my brochures. I’m really good builder. Here’s some testimonials. In other words, it was all about me, me, me, and what can you give me? Me? Me? Right? Yeah, it was very one sided conversation, I was smart enough to realize, like, hey, this could work. But emotionally unintelligent, in that moment to realize like, this is a bad approach, right? And so then I, I made a different attempt to a different architectural designer, this time, I used strategies that were more relationship based, I sought somebody that already knew that architectural designer, I crafted what I wanted that, that person to say about me, so that when I got the meeting with the architecture designer, it wasn’t about me, it was about him, and finding something that I could deliver on quickly. And then over time being integrated into his, in his client experience, to where I was getting access to his clients, before he ever put that project out for bid. And it was really finding unique ways to add value to that upstream partners when I refer to a mass. And so that that kind of what became the foundation of this model of, of, for any business, or anybody that needs to get new business, you can go their traditional route of creating a big database of a bunch of people. And inside that database, you’ll find some people who will use your services, and will refer you right, but but again, you’re spending a lot of time on a big database, right? meaning you’re putting your line in the water, you know, oftentimes and only pulling out a few fish. Whereas if on the other hand, you could cultivate a very small database of the right people, okay, and deliver big value to that small database of people, they could give you a lot of referrals. So it kind of turns the traditional database concept on its head, set a bet big database for a few referrals. It’s small database for lots of referrals. The difference is, it’s not just your common, Tom, Dick and Harry, right? Or like the common consumer, your friends, families fear, I’m not saying you shouldn’t do that, but it’s taken, okay, who are the people in society? Whose current customers will be will need me next, right? Are my prospective customers? And how do I add such value to those individuals, that they let me in early that they let me start to pull fish out of the stream, before they ever come down where everyone else is fishing. That’s where the concept came from. And the principles of the book teach, how to do that, how to identify the upstream partner how to approach them, how not to approach them, and specifically what you can do to add big value to them. So they really see you as a trusted peer, even mentor leader in and to where they don’t just refer you because they know you like you trust you and want to help you. Right? They’re doing that for you. It’s teaching us how you how you pivot that to where they’re referring you not for you, but for them, right because it’s good for their client experience. They’re doing it because it’s good. It’s it makes them better not because like they want to help you right, which will take referrals over and get them but it’s a lot more consistent and predictable when they’re doing it for themselves as opposed to doing it for you.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. Oh absolutely. Gosh, there’s so many different ways I want to I want to go with this. Well, first of all, I gotta say I love a good fishing analogy or metaphor. There are certain listeners here who are laughing or and I guess by laughing I mean cringing thinking about my different fishing metaphors for guy who actually doesn’t do a lot of fishing. I sure like the way it lends itself to explain concepts. But I was just thinking about all of that, right? And so that’s in the context of like a service based business. So I was just thinking that immediately as you were saying that how it Like the parallel track that it follows for people who, like me, as a buyer of real estate, I’m not really a service provider, I mean, you could argue that I am, but I’m not positioning myself that way. Nor is the the seller of a property thinking of me exactly in that way. But the normal way of buying real estate, of course, is you go to a pond, there’s a very crowded, like there’s a finite number of fish in the pond, but it’s very crowded with tear, as you mentioned, you know, lots of other lines in the water, other buyers, real estate agents, all sorts of things like that. But if we were to go upstream, in this case, sort of in the context of what you know, what I what I do, and teach others about as buyers, then now we’re talking to people who aren’t sellers, yet, they’re actually just property owners, I still call them sellers. But at this point, they’re just property owners and they’re invisible, they’ve never, they’ve never raised their hand and said, Hey, I’m ready to sell my property or anything like that. So nobody knows that they are a seller. So we go upstream, and we reach out to those people and begin adding value. Now it’s not adding value in the in the really professional sense, because again, these people don’t think they have a problem that needs value to be added. But we are adding value in the context of like, building trust, and building relationships and, and building credibility and things like that by positioning ourselves correctly. And ultimately, then that leads further downstream to being able to buy those properties before without anybody else ever knowing that the property was actually available for sale, because we’re upstream talking that seller, you know, way, way, way in advance. And so to me, like, what you just described there makes perfect sense in the context of being a service based professional, which a lot of our listeners have real estate licenses and things like that. But also as just a buyer of real estate, trying to kind of get out of the, you know, just the overcrowded pond and way too many lines in the water.

And I, it’s fun to hear your application of that model to what you’re doing. It’s, that’s exactly what you’re doing. Right. And I and the subtitle of the book is how to build a massive referral business that crushes big tech competitors. And the reason why I put that is to be a little bit sensational. But but the concept behind that is that these big tech companies have built billion dollar platforms, right? Let’s take Zillow, for example, billion dollar platforms, in an attempt to get there early in an attempt to get eyeballs on their platform, so that when people think real estate, they think Zillow, for example, right? And if they can capture the attention early, then they can package those leads up before it ever goes to market anywhere else. And they can, you know, buy the home directly. Or they can insert one of their agents and you know, and they get a commission on it. They’ve built a business around getting there first by building something enticing that people want to look at which is their their website. And so I think when you when you think of that it’s okay well, how do I beat these guys? Like I can’t build a better website? Right? I can’t you have better SEO with Zillow? Well, it’s using your model, Jeff, which is like relationship based, like human human stuff that that they won’t ever succeed that right. At a high level. It’s how do you it’s it’s essentially getting there first, right? You’re getting there early. And sometimes you’re getting there. You know, the, the thing that I love about what you teach chef is that you’re, you’re getting there first because sometimes you’re actually oftentimes you’re actually teaching these sellers, that it’s time or that would be a good idea or that there’s certain tax advantages doing it this way. There’s no better way to get there first and actually teaching them that they should sell right or that they could sell. Yeah, that that that gets further upstream, then then the big tech companies or the traditional players, right, that are putting on the market. So yeah, what you’re doing is 100% equipping people to utilize the upstream model and to get there first, which is where all the great opportunities are at, like if you’ve ever read the book, The Blue Ocean Strategy.

Jeff Stephens 

Oh my gosh, I was just totally thinking about that. I was like, Well, if I bring another water based metaphor in here, people are gonna freak out.

So if you haven’t read the book, just this just push fast forward over a few seconds if you’ve had read the book, right? There’s this bloody ocean where everybody’s competing, right? That’s what Jeff described as this competitive pond where the house is on the mark and all the investors are right, kind of feasting off of each other’s margins, etc. And then there’s the blue ocean right? Which in my analogy, is you get upstream, right? And and it’s out where there’s nobody else fishing yet. It’s out where there’s no other competition, because you’ve beat everybody to it, right? You’re there first. You’re out by yourself. And there’s, that’s where there’s profit. That’s, you know, that’s where there’s margin and opportunity. And, yeah, what you’re teaching Jeff is this. It’s so aligned, and I absolutely love what you’re teaching.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I’ll keep this very quick. But in my previous entrepreneurial life before I was a full time real estate entrepreneur, I had a branding and Marketing consultancy. And we worked with with banks and credit unions specifically, which is super ironic because now I teach people how to not use banks or credit unions. But anyway, so we they small banks and credit unions and hire us to help them with their branding and whatnot. And I wrote this piece that was sort of like a positioning piece that we call it the de commoditization Manifesto. And it was all about showing them that if they’re just out selling loans, and checking accounts, and online banking and stuff like that, you’re just you’re in the bloody red ocean, and you can’t really do anything about that. But if you kind of change the game, maybe go a little bit more upstream and actually compete a little bit more on the level of like hearts and minds and all of that, then you’re you’re you’re de commoditizing yourself, you’re removing yourself from the commoditized forces of, of banking. And people would say the same things about banking that we, you know, we just talked about in real estate, right, big tech is making is is is changing is leveling the playing field and all that. And so like, the way to get around that was through having a more relationship based brand focused approach. And I feel like that’s really the same kind of concept here is that what we’re doing, in your case, like with real estate agents and whatnot, where we’re resisting the forces of commoditization that technology is pushing on to the industry, and then in my case, but that’s kind of what we’re doing to is, as buyers a real estate, is we are, we’re resisting the forces of commoditization, like if you’re just making offers based on price, money is the big I mean, it’s like the definition of just a commodity, right? Like my money is just as green as yours, like, all I could do is offer more of it. But if if we resist those forces of commoditization, and come at it from a different thing, a different perspective, different angle, so that what we’re actually offering is, is something that’s not commoditized, like relationship, and competence and trust and those types of things, then we get outside, you know, we get outside the very limiting dynamics of commoditization.

You know, one of my mentors, wrote a book called expert secrets, not sure if you’ve read it or not, but he talks about this, this concept that you’re discussing, which is like, all all products, if you can’t differentiate them, then it becomes the only differentiators price, which is what you just said, right? And one way to differentiate that I see you doing is in addition to the trust, and, and and all the things you describe, it’s also the knowledge right, when you layer, take any product and layer on unique knowledge on how to use that product, how to see it differently, how to use it differently, you went, right? And I see, again, your approach and that and that what you’re teaching, Jeff is exactly that you’re only getting there early, but you’re getting there through offering unique knowledge you’re getting there through really sustainable, trustworthy strategies, right? That are not a quick win, like a win lose type scenario, they’re really win win, and helping people to have a better outcome than they would have without you. Right And that’s, that’s something that I discovered as a home builder that very similar to how you describe had I waited down in that, like downstream The only thing that really differentiate myself would have been price especially because I was outmatched, because everybody been there longer, right more experience, etc, it had to come down like who this guy is going to do it for less, let’s use him right. And that’s some other strategies to differentiate but but in essence, it comes down to a price game. Whereas when I got up and really started to add value, to for me, the upstream Pirate Party was the architect, all of a sudden price did I got such a strong endorsement from him, because of the value that I’d added to him and his clients early in the game. Like, as long as I was reasonable, right? Price didn’t necessarily come up because they saw the knowledge and the value added on top of the product that they already expected and I think that’s where you really d commoditize yourself,

Jeff Stephens 

you know, yeah, gosh, absolutely. So as as we start to wrap up I have to ask you, I have to ask you your own question. What do you do to keep yourself thinking bigger?

I love it you know I’ve found that if I’m not uncomfortable something’s wrong and I’m there’s always something to be uncomfortable i don’t know what i mean uncomfortable it’s stretching myself and growing myself right when I started my podcast I was super nervous you know, I was super nervous to have anybody on and then I got or now I like that’s not that’s not scary at all. But I’m starting to do some different kinds of events and launches that just require me to be vulnerable that require me to to do things in fact one thing that I just started this week that had me super nervous and now I’m having fun with it is Instagram reels. I know that sounds silly to use like social media gurus that are like Dude, you just did your first real It’s embarrassing. But I just had my first real and like for me I’m I’m very comfortable being kind of like business in front of people and sharing good insight. And I’m not doing like the fun funny dances, so don’t get your hopes up if that’s what you’re looking for. But just even kind of having this other side of my personality come out in a business setting was uncomfortable for me. So this week, that’s what I’m tackling is that fear of like, being a little more vulnerable when it comes to that, that that personality side of myself. So I think every week we ought to ask ourselves the question of like, what project Am I tackling this week? And does it make me uncomfortable? uncomfortable in a sense that you shouldn’t be doing it, but uncouple in the sense of like, the people that I admire that have the lives in the businesses that I want, they’re doing this? And oftentimes, when we have that thought, come into our head where it’s like, Yeah, but they’re, they’re further down the road than I am. Yeah. But they’ve been, that’s where that’s where we need to stop ourselves to say, Do I want to have what they have or not? Because I can always talk myself into saying, I’m not ready for that. And I’m not ready for that. You’re right, you’re not and they weren’t either when they did it. And so again, I think it’s it’s going down and being comfortable. And in fact, I just posted this quote yesterday, that if we look at something that looks like an unattainable goal, it’s because we’re looking at it through the eyes of who we are today. And the reality is, we don’t want to be who we are today forever. hope not. We actually want to be somebody else. So instead of being like, Oh, I can’t do that. Because I’m not that person. rather ask yourself the question of, who do I who I need to become toward that would be totally easy. I need to be like Russell Brunson. I need to be like this. Like if I were them, that would be like, no worries, like having a 4000 person events, right? Like, I’m just stating like stuff he does, right? And it’s like, Okay, well, if I want to have an impact, like he’s had then, okay, that’s when you to be like, Okay, so how do we how did the noid be more like that person? How do I? How do we get there coaching and their consulting and their help and their insights to where all of a sudden that big unattainable thing becomes? Not so scary anymore, right? And you can do that thing in bite sized steps of like, what’s the next like Instagram release, right? Or maybe doing your first live right like Facebook Live, like whatever is on top for you tackle one thing a week, that makes you a little bit uncomfortable. And I think you’ll be surprised at how fast you start to grow. I

Jeff Stephens 

couldn’t agree more. Absolutely. So the book is called the upstream model podcast is the think bigger real estate show. Right? So where is the best way for people to get in touch with you and keep up with everything you’re doing. So I’ve

actually you can go to Amazon and get the book and it’s $25 or so you can also download the the link or I should say the E book for 10 bucks, but I actually for people that are listening to this show I have a I have a free digital copy of the book that’s available if you could just go to Justin Stoddard that’s sto DD ar t.com Ford slash free book you can download the entire upstream model book for free and then if you really want the paper copy there’s a link after that that will take you to both the audio version as well as a paper copy for like free plus shipping. So I want to get the information in your hands I know it’ll make an impact that will also put you you know on my on my list so I can continue to teach you the new things that I’m learning as I as I tutor and mentor and coach people on how to apply this model.

Jeff Stephens 

Awesome. Well, thank you. That’s a generous offer. And I hope everybody does that I will be doing that exactly myself. Justin, thanks for hanging out. I love the I love the the metaphors, the analogies, the deep philosophy and the super practical, tangible things we can all take away right now. So thanks so much for coming on here. Such a pleasure, Jeff, thank you for the opportunity. There you have it my conversation with Justin stutter. And I think you can see he is really a true thoughtful real estate entrepreneur. And I get a lot of value out of having these thoughtful kind of conversations with people who spend most of their time in slightly different sort of corners of the real estate world. And I find that just because like the context of what we do on a day to day basis is a little bit different. The spirit of the ideas and being a thoughtful person and being very people oriented and all of that is just such a strong bit of alignment. So I hope you enjoyed that interview. That is it for today’s episode of racking up rental. So again, show notes can be found at thoughtful ar e comm slash e 124. Please do us a huge favor by hitting that subscribe button in your podcast app and take just a second to rate and review the show. You might not know this but I see every rating and every review I read them personally and they mean the world to me so thank you so much for doing that. Did you know also that we have a Facebook group for thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs. It’s true it’s called rental portfolio wealth builders. We’d love to have you join us over there you could just go to group dot thoughtful r e COMM And you’ll be redirected right to that page within Facebook. If you like this episode I sure hope you did please take a screenshot of it. post that screenshot to Instagram and tag us on Instagram we are at thoughtful real estate. So I’ll see you the next episode. Until then, this is Jeff from the thoughtful real estate entrepreneur, signing off. Thanks for listening to racking up rentals where we build long term wealth by being a win win deal makers. Remember solve the person to unlock the deal and solve the financing to unlock the profits.

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