Being an Introvert in Real Estate, With Ashley Harwood

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In a word full of Extroverts who get their energy from meeting with and talking to as many people as possible, where do Introverts fit in? If you’re a fan of the Thoughtful approach to real estate investing, there’s a good chance you feel at least a little like an Introvert yourself. In this episode, Jeff interviews Ashley Harwood of Move Over Extroverts, who specializes in coaching real estate professionals who are Introverts. Jeff and Ashley discuss what it’s like to wonder, “what’s wrong with me?” and feel frustrated and lost when extrovert-oriented business strategies don’t work for us, and also discuss the incredible super-powers that introverts are gifted with, and how they can be extremely valuable traits in the real estate business.

Episode Transcript

Everyone should be able to tap into empathy. That’s an important emotional intelligence skill. And in a people business, it’s very, very important to be able to feel empathy. That’s exactly what you describe. I would agree 100% Being able to tap into someone else’s emotions and imagine what they’re feeling

Jeff Stephens 

welcome to racking up rentals, a show about how regular people, those of us without huge war chests of capital or insider connections, can build lasting wealth acquiring a portfolio of buy and hold real estate. But we don’t just go mainstream looking at what’s on the market and asking banks for loans, nor are we posting WE BUY HOUSES signs are just looking for, quote, motivated sellers to make lowball offers to. You see, we are people oriented deal makers. We sit down directly with sellers to work out Win Win deals without agents or any other obstacles and buy properties, nobody else even those are for sale. I’m Jeff from the thoughtful real estate entrepreneur. If you’re the kind of real estate investor who wants long term wealth, not get rich quick gimmicks or pictures of yourself holding fat checks on social media, this show is for you. Join me and quietly become the wealthiest person on your block. Now let’s go rack up a rental portfolio. Hey, thank you for joining me for another episode of racking up rentals. Show Notes including a transcript can be found at thoughtful our e.com/e 150 Please do us a big favor by hitting the follow or the subscribe button or whatever it looks like in your podcast app. It really helps other thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs who are looking for a show like this to find it, because the platform’s know that you are listening. Thank you so much. And of course make sure you don’t miss any upcoming episodes. Onward with today’s episode. And in today’s episode, I’m really glad to bring you a conversation with a newer friend of mine, Ashley Harwood. She is the founder of a coaching organization called Move over extroverts, and runs a great Facebook group called introverts in real estate. And you know, I’ve just always felt like while thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs aren’t necessarily exclusively, were specifically introverts. I do think some of the themes of introversion and some of the attributes of introverts are some of the attributes we see a lot in our own communities, some of the attributes that allow us to be very relationship oriented when we’re working directly with sellers and very thoughtful kinds of people. And so when I came across Ashley, I thought I need to have a conversation with her. And we need to tape it so that everybody else can hear. So I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed the conversation. Without further ado, let me give you my conversation with Ashley Harwood. All right, Ashley, thank you so much for joining me today.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, well, as I was just saying, before I hit record, you know, when I, when I came across you and your group and everything you’re doing, I thought, oh my gosh, this is perfect. This seems like such a great overlap with, you know, like, what, what you’re talking about, and I think a lot of the themes in this sort of the way that people in my community think of themselves. So I guess I wanted to just start by asking you like, at what point and how did you kind of get to the spot where you really had clarity for yourself that you’re like, Oh, I am an introvert. And I’m in real estate. And, you know, was that immediately perfectly clear for you? Or did you feel like you were kind of lost at some point kind of trying to operate in a world that wasn’t fit for you? And so because it seems like you have a lot of clarity now. So how did that how did that come about?

It definitely was a process. It was not right off the bat. And the fact that took me so long is one of the reasons why I’m so excited and passionate about sharing this information with as many people in the business as possible to spare them those years of not understanding and trying things that don’t work. So my, you know, the very short version was I got my real estate license in 2013 and jumped into training, took all the classes did all the things that they taught me in the classes, a lot of cold calling naturally door knocking, you know, scripts, and I was not seeing the same results that my colleagues were seeing. We’re doing the same things and seeing very different results. And so I started wondering, okay, what is going on? What’s wrong with me? That’s a scary thought. And what I realized over time, so it was a little bit of time, a little bit of experience, but mostly I read the book, quiet by Susan Cain. That was the book that created the light bulb moment. Yeah, I’m in when I finally ended understood what ninja was and how my energy was being drained every day. And I wasn’t replenishing it. Because I didn’t know what that was, I didn’t know that was a thing. And I didn’t see how important it was. I was just going along, following, you know, these models and systems that we’re all taught, and essentially burning myself out, over and over and over again. And then when I finally realized I got this clarity, that was before three years into my career, so it took a minute. And those are very hard years. And I clawed and scraped my way to build a business. And I did it, but it didn’t have to be so hard or takes a long.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. It’s so funny, just as you were saying that, I was just thinking, I feel like that’s kind of what we do as coaches is, is, you know, we remember what it was like to be kind of like, I like to think of it as stumbling around in the wilderness, like trying to find something that that worked, but also felt right. I don’t know, if you, I don’t know if you’ve ever thought about this, but the way I think about it now is I feel like, the strategies I’m using have to make sense to my head and to my heart. And, and unless those two things are intersecting, it’s like, it’s never gonna quite work, right? Because it’s like, oh, this is very logical, but it feels awful. Or this feels really good. But it’s not really working. And it’s like, when those two things come together, then you start to really get a lot of traction. It sounds like then what that’s kind of when it all kind of clicked for you. And you were able to begin making more progress.

Yeah, it did. It did. And it took a long time to be able to have words around that. And that’s actually something that I use. It’s part of my one of my classes I teach is I have everyone make a list of what they do for lead gen currently, how they’re getting business, and I have them go through how well is it working? And how much do you enjoy it? Because those two things are so so important.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah. You said that you asked yourself that question, and what’s wrong with me? And it’s like, it’s so hard to even hear that. And I think we’ve all sadly, we’ve all asked ourselves that question at different times, you know, but that’s, that is a hard question to ask yourself. And I’m guessing that at one point, then maybe figure out with a book and then that journey that you went on, after that, you realize that I mean, of course, obviously it’s there’s nothing is wrong with me, but maybe even quite the opposite, right? Like maybe, maybe this is actually a whole set of superpowers that we’re just kind of looking at it in the wrong way. Is that? Is that how you think about it?

100%? Yes. And again, there are only a handful of people out there telling that story. And I encounter hundreds, if not 1000s of agents who are asking themselves, not only is there something wrong with me, but more commonly, they’re asking, should I get out of this business entirely? Do I have what it takes to have the right personality? And there’s just a lot of education that still needs to happen around that? Because the answer for everyone is, anyone can be successful in this business, you just have to figure out a way that works well for you, and is aligned with who you are and what you enjoy. And you’re going to connect with those types of clients in a way that somebody who’s very different from you is not?

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, I’ve got I’ve got so many questions I want to ask you here, I’m trying to think of the best place to start. So if there’s anybody listening right now, who isn’t maybe totally sure if they are an introvert or an extrovert, or, or I mean, I’m guessing there’s probably it’s probably not a binary thing, right? There is probably a spectrum in between, I would think. But if there’s somebody who is feeling like, gosh, I don’t totally feel like it fits, I’m fitting in to what I’m trying to do or what everybody else is saying I’m supposed to do. But I don’t know if that’s really the right words to put to it or label like how does a person know if they are more of an introvert?

That’s a good question. Because it’s very, it can be pretty misunderstood. So an introvert is very simply somebody whose energy is replenished when they’re alone. And it’s drained when they’re around other people, even people they like even when they’re having fun. So the easy example is to think about, okay, if, let’s say you just went to a networking event, and it was really fun. You had good conversations with people you got a lot out of it. You were there for maybe two hours. Do you want to go home and take a nap after pretend it’s an evening event? Okay. Do you want to go home and go to bed and like I’m out? I can’t talk to another person. Or are you like, where’s the after party? What are we doing next? Let’s hang out till two aim. Yeah. Or somewhere in the middle. So you absolutely there’s a spectrum. And you know, it can. There are people who are really in the middle and people who are really extreme and most of us are a combination of both.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s a great litmus test. Yeah, I can just picture yourself in that in that event. And then what are you thinking and feeling inside as, as it’s starting to wrap up? You’re like, oh, my gosh, thank God, I can go home now and sort of do my own thing, or,

yeah, and there are some people, I was always in the camp of, I really want to go home. But I feel like I should go out. Like, I should stay out. And so I did, I would push myself because I didn’t know that that was. It was harmful to me. In certain situations. If I didn’t have the energy reserves to do that. Then I was pushing myself past my limit.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. Yeah. So I wonder if there are people, you know, who have sort of a, maybe it’s an overly simplified idea of what an introvert is, that just says, like, I don’t like people at all. But while I am no, not even close to be an expert, I do consider myself to be more of an introvert. And I wouldn’t say that about myself at all. I wouldn’t, I would not say, I don’t like people, but it’s sort of like maybe dosage and type of interactions. So when you think about that for yourself, are you do you think of it like, you know, actually, the less people time, the better? Or is it like certain types of situations that seem to match your energy levels better?

It’s definitely certain types of situations, certain people, there are some people in general, who are just incredibly draining no matter what. Usually, those are the folks who are complainers, or they’re very negative, or they just, you know, don’t take responsibility for their own lives. I have no patience for that. So that’s very draining to be around. But in general, I love people. That’s why I’m in the real estate industry. And before that, I was in retail. And you know, I love being around people. I just need it in small doses. And I need to make sure that I’m taking enough time alone to balance it out. Yeah.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, that makes sense. I think about sort of like the it’s sort of the context of like, you and I having a one on one conversation. Now, it’s a little bit different on Zoom, I guess. But if I were to sit down at a coffee shop and chat with you, to me, it feels very, very different than being in a room with 100 people. Even if I’m only talking to one at a time, that dynamic feels very different. And the one on one with you in the coffee shop feels infinitely more comfortable and enjoyable and stuff to me then then one at a time and in a room full of 100. Is that something that like? Is that something you think or feel as well? Is that is that indicative of sort of introverts in general? Or is that maybe just more like a uniqueness of like, how I think about it,

I think it’s definitely a common theme amongst introverts to prefer one on one connection. In a small setting. I do think larger events can be they have their place, and they can be valuable. So nothing I say, I want to be construed as don’t do it, you know. But when I approach a large event, my intention is to make a few connections with people and then follow up later and have have the coffee with them individually. Yeah.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, that’s, that’s a really good way to think about it. So I’d love to I feel like maybe the, you know, the, the grill crux of like, what I think everybody can get so much out of this is, is the reframe part of this. So I’d love to just ask a few questions about the, you know, what are the elements of being an introvert that are actually superpowers that like everybody else, the extroverts they, they couldn’t even possibly do what we do because they don’t have that unique skill set. Right? They have their own superpowers, but so when someone just says like, gosh, how can I actually reframe this so that I have all sorts of abilities that extroverts don’t like? What are the first things that come to your mind as like the real strengths of this sort of type of person and personality?

The first thing that comes to mind is listening and building strong relationships. That’s, that’s the first thing and I don’t want to say that extroverts cannot do that because they certainly can. It’s just something that comes really naturally more so. To the introverts, maybe because we have, we want to spend time with a fewer number of people and go deeper with those few people versus I have to say hi to all these 100 people in the room I have to make sure they all get my business card, you know, even just seeing that as exhausting to me. Yeah. So it really is a superpower. To be able to go deep with people and go deep, quicker. I think another thing that we, in general have in common is not having a lot of patience for small talk. We like to get to the meat of a conversation more quickly, you know, really get to know this person and, and make good use of the time that we’re interacting with them. Because interacting with another person, even one on one for an introvert is draining. Yeah. So it’s better to make good use of that time instead of just frittering away this energy talking about something that doesn’t matter.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. Yeah. It does, it does Absolutely. just reminded me when you just said about going deep, I was just chatting with my wife about something must, must have been related to this just a couple of days ago, we were talking about the difference between like, going an inch wide the mile deep with somebody or a mile wide and an inch deep with a whole bunch of people. And yeah, that I’m far more interested in going deeper with with fewer people. Kind of in every sense, business being being no different. I love I mean, I just love the idea of listening actually. I feel like it’s in my coaching. This is maybe just like one of the most common things we talked about. It’s just like, you know, don’t, don’t say so much. Just open your ears and ask the next natural follow up question, right? Because when somebody says something, it’s almost it almost always presents an opportunity for like the next. The next follow up kind of question that you can you can have, and it’s amazing how, like, listening is what we’re doing, but feeling heard is what the other person is doing. To me, like, that’s a major thing. When you’re the person you’re talking to is like, wow, you’re I can tell you really actually hearing this and retaining it. And that’s a cool thing.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think introverts tend to do that very well. Yeah.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. Okay, so we have there’s one one major superpower listening, building strong relationships, naturally, going deep, and being able to do that pretty quickly. So what’s another another thing that you think of as like a real strength, like something you really glad you have as an introvert?

I’m not sure if this is more introvert thing or more Empath thing, and kind of sometimes those lines get a little blurry. But I’m pretty good at intuiting what somebody else is feeling. And I’m very sensitive to other people’s emotions. And sometimes it’s not a good thing. But a lot of times it is because I can tell if there’s something going on, and the person’s not saying it, and I can usually draw it out of them. So for instance, with clients, that’s helpful, you know, with a buyer, I can tell if they don’t really love this house, and then I’ll call them out gently and say, What is going on? Please? You know, you can be honest with me what’s happening versus somebody who’s, you know, just kind of looking at the surface and like, How can I convince this person to buy this house? You know, it’s, yeah, very different things.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you just use the word Empath, which I, which I love. Empathy is, again, one of the words that kind of comes up most in the type of work that I do with with coaching clients. So how would you describe an empath? And then how does an empath differ from an introvert or, you know, sounds like they there’s a lot of overlap there. But what’s the distinction between the two?

So I don’t know as much about being an empath, as I do about being an introvert. I haven’t read any books on it, but I kind of know, I know a little bit. So my understanding is that being an empath is being somebody who’s hyper sensitive to other people and their emotions, and more affected by other people’s emotions, you know, especially people that they’re very close to family partners. That energy affects the empath. So that’s completely different than somebody whose energy is drained by being around all people. Period. I don’t know if I’m explaining this very well.

Jeff Stephens 

I think I get what you’re saying. Yeah. So it’s like, here’s a unbelievably simple example. Like, you’re sad. And now I’m sad because I’m, like tapping into the way you’re feeling. But maybe the opposite. It could be true. Like, if you were really anxious or really excited or something like that I would be feeling that almost vicariously through somebody. Is that a good way to think about it? Yeah.

Yeah, you’re and so empaths have to be careful to not let other people’s emotions affect them too much to the point where it changes their life, you know? So you have to kind of guard against that.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. Yeah. So do you personally sort of self identify as an empath? Also? I do. Yeah. Yeah. So a little bit of a tangential side note, but like, as a coach, then how how does that affect your? How does it impact your experience as a coach like, does it since you’re, you’re you’re feeling the way that your your students are feeling? And sometimes I’m imagining that stress about a situation or a worry or something like that? How do you personally sort of manage to I guess, have some sort of inappropriate boundary there?

That’s a good question. Most of the clients I work with, when they experience a negative emotion, it usually is stress and anxiety. And I’ve had to work hard to not take that on myself. And the way that I’ve done that is kind of reframing my role with them, my relationship with them. So rather than take on their stress, because that won’t help either one of us, I choose to look at it as I’m giving them birth. Instead of them giving me their emotion, I’m giving them my emotion. So I’m transferring my calmness to them. And I think about that, and I am purposeful in my tonality and how I speak and the words I choose with them so that they calm down. And it usually works. But it’s not, it hasn’t been easy to get to that point where I’m not only aware of it, but able to do its practice.

Jeff Stephens 

That’s really cool. I like that. I’ve heard I’ve heard coaching before, described by by other people kind of in the coaching industry, like one person framed it as your clients are like a borrowing your confidence. And then to take that and just sort of apply to what you’re saying. It’s almost like they’re borrowing your, your composure, or your even keel illness or whatever, you know, in that particular moment, because that’s what they need. Yeah, that’s cool. I haven’t this visual of like, a USB cord that like goes between your heart and somebody else’s heart. And you’re just like, whatever’s happening in theirs is just like transferring straight over to you. But to your point, it’s like, it’s a two way USB cord, right? Like you can transmit it through the cord to them if what they need is, you know, is your strength or calmness or whatever,

right. So as a coach, it’s, you know, it’s important to understand that distinction and make sure that I’m not taking on their negativity. It’s the same sort of relationship between an agent and a client. You know, your job as the agent is to help them calm down. Yeah.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. So okay, so back to the E word here, because I really love that you were. But I think and talk a lot about empathy. And it occurs to me that like, when I think of empathy, it’s very similar to what you just mentioned, but not, it made me more diluted. So I think of empathy as my ability to put myself in somebody else’s shoes and think about things from their perspective and and envision what it might be like to feel what they feel, but not necessarily like it’s, it’s more like voluntary, like I can step in there, and I see it, and I feel it, and I can step back into my own shoes. But this is just me making things up completely. So are, is there a difference between being an empath and having empathy? Or is it just sort of different levels of the same thing or

there is a difference? I would say the difference is in people who feel everyone should be able to tap into empathy. That’s an important emotional intelligence skill. And in a people business, it’s very, very important to be able to feel empathy. That’s exactly what you describe. I would agree 100% Being able to tap into someone else’s emotions and imagine what they’re feeling. The difference between having empathy and tapping into empathy and being identifying as an empath is that the empath it’s, it’s less voluntary, you’re not making a conscious choice to Okay, let me think about how they’re feeling. No, their emotions just kind of hit you over the head and you have to, like, deal with them, you know, or make sure that you are skilled enough and aware enough to not take those emotions on. So one of the ones more choice Yeah, There is more just kind of how you’re wired.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. That’s super, super interesting and super cool. Do you think this is not a planned question, but just popped in my head? Do you think empathy can be learned? Or is it totally innate? And you have it or you don’t at birth?

No, I think it can be learned. Absolutely. I think at this scale, it can be learned, it can be honed, it can be increased, there are even exercises people can do to improve their empathy.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. Yeah, I’ve actually never really thought about that exact question before, but I guess it feels to me, like, people have a certain level of empathy that’s, you know, available to them. But it might be kind of, you know, buried, buried, like, they might not be very conscious about it. Right. So that might be more of a process of like, I need to find it and dust it off a little bit and practice using it and honing it a little bit.

Yeah, absolutely. And some of that, I’m sure, is affected by one’s upbringing and current circumstances, you know, there are a lot of factors to this. So there is, there’s a base amount that we’re all born with, and some are born with more than others, and the extreme are born born as empaths. And they’re just walking around the world feeling everyone’s emotions and having to like, go through life like that. So there’s, like, there’s a root of it. And then the people who, you know, learn about this and choose to tap into it can increase their what they are already born with. And I think that’s an important skill to have. Because then you know, how to treat people, you know, just it’s all around a good thing. Yeah,

Jeff Stephens 

for sure. Alright, so you talked before about the idea of replenishing, you know, replenishing energy. And, I guess we’re wanting to ask you about is, how does somebody who identifies as an introvert, how do they replenish their energy in the context of work? Because I guess in some ways, it seems sort of obvious that it’s like, well, if you need to replenish your energy, like, stop working, and you know, do something else like vacation, you know, and I think all that’s obviously, a part of the equation too, but still, within the context of work, like if there’s still there’s work to be done, but you know, like, I’m noticing, I’m feeling kind of drained. I’m not sure if my question is making sense, but like, what are the real estate activities that a person can do to replenish and recharge, while still kind of being productive and moving forward? And what they need to do? Does that does a question makes sense?

It makes sense and thinking about the best way to answer it. Obviously, it’s going to vary a lot person to person. I’m not sure. I think You’ve stumped me. I’m not sure if there are any work activities that people find replenishing. I’m very curious to know if anyone listening has something like that. Typically, when I asked that question to people, you know, what do you find replenishing I usually have people make a list. And it’s always something that involves taking a break from work. A lot of it’s exercise getting out in nature. Spending time with pets, animals, Non Humans, you know? You Yeah, I’m not sure because even the the most fun real estate activity is probably still going to be draining for an introvert because it usually involves talking to other people. Maybe like maybe hand addressing notecards or something or just sitting in writing.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah, actually, I can see that being the case. One of my favorite things to do is this kind of like nothing I like more than to sit down. Usually like in an quieter coffee shop with like, an awesome fresh, steaming hot cup of coffee, a nice pen and like a blank notepad or a journal in front of me and so like brainstorm, right? So, you know, in the context, I guess of real estate could be brainstorming maybe a new marketing strategy or a new like geographic area that you want to go after or some in my case, you know, it’s like some financing strategy maybe for for something like that, but I love that so and it’s still work in the sense that it’s all stuff that has to get done. But there’s something to be recharging about. Like it’s just me kind of my thoughts you know, the comforting companion have a great cup of coffee and a you know, a nice pad of paper that sort of to think on. Yeah.

So I love for that example, because it shows how the same activity can be so different for two different people. I find that activity very fun. And it recharges me in the moment. But it’s more. I don’t use the word recharge for myself, because my experience is it gives me a burst of adrenaline. And then I crash afterwards. Because I get all excited and hyped up and yeah, I’m gonna do all these things. And then I have to go take a nap. Yeah. Yeah, so it’s still a worthwhile activity. But for me, it does not bring my energy battery back up. I see. That’s the same reason I switched from reading. Like, at night when I’m trying to relax. I can’t read business books or leadership books anymore. It has to be fiction, because otherwise I will get all fired up and is not. That’s a good thing that I like to do. During my work hours, you know?

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah. On that note of, of reading, so you mentioned quiet, which I’m a little embarrassed to have not read. I’m definitely very familiar with that. I’m pretty sure we can have it on a shelf in my house here, but I have not read it. Yeah. But what are other things? Like if there’s somebody who’s listening who kind of wants to, you know, just explore this topic a little bit more, and maybe they’re like, wondering, gosh, maybe maybe this is really me, maybe I need to sort of tune into this, you know, just this concept more and educate myself more, what are some other things that you recommend or things you’re reading and checking out now that you really like?

The book quiet is definitely that’s like the introversion Bible. And I think she also has a TED talk on the topic, if you don’t want to, you read the entire book. But that’s, that’s probably my favorite one. There are not a lot of resources out there for introverts, let me let me think Matthew Pollard wrote two books for introverts that are both very good. One is called. I don’t remember the first one. Oh, sorry. Matthew is giving me his new one is network and introverts guide to networking. And that’s a very good book that came out two years ago, I think. So there are some resources. I think just like doing some research on this topic, Googling, tap learning about being an empath, as well, like those are all cool things to kind of know, there are a lot of videos out there. Matthew Pollard and then there was another book called Introvert, the introvert entrepreneur by I want to say, Beth, and Boileau. That’s another good book. And neither of those are specific to real estate. However, they are specific to running a business as an introvert.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah. So just kind of going back to your own story, in your own experience. Once you really got this kind of clarity of like, Oh, here’s what’s going on. Here’s why I don’t I’m not seeing results with like, what everybody else is teaching me. What’s it been like for you ever since then, like, how has your I mean, your life but your business life? Like how has it changed, since you kind of like clicked into like, Oh, this is how I need to be doing things?

Well, I took my own list of lead generation activities and cross some things off of it. And that freed up a good amount of time, and energy, and that I could pour some of that into the activities that I did enjoy that we’re aligned and are and we’re working. And then some of it, I just kept that time for myself. So I went from working probably 50 to 60 hours a week to 30 to 40. And that just made a huge difference in my quality of life and my business because I was able to show up to my clients in a much better state. Yeah, I wasn’t as frazzled agent. I was calm. I was on point. I could handle the crazy things that come up during a transaction. So much better. Yeah, you know, yeah.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, it seems like you if you are if you’re more recharged, you’re going to show up as a better version of yourself. But I was also thinking about just the idea of like authenticity that maybe because you if you’ve given yourself permission to not have to do cold calling or door knocking or the stuff you identified that didn’t really feel like you by pairing, pairing that away. Now you’re really good. You’re showing up with more energy, but you’re showing up more like the more genuine version of Ashley as well. Do you think was that part of your experience, too?

Yes, very much. So. And I’m glad you brought up giving yourself permission. Because I think that’s the thing that a lot of people struggle with, including myself. You know, if you’ve been in the business for a while, you’ve probably heard these things that you should be doing. And it’s not that they don’t work. They certainly do. But there shouldn’t be so many shoulds

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, I yeah, I agree. And, you know, in my own way, too, though, that was my experience, as well, I was when I first started, you know, this in the context of real estate investing, but it was like, I’m gonna buy property sort of the normal way. I’m going to work with an agent and see what’s on the market and then get bank loans. I’m like, Okay, this is fine. But it seems it seems a little slow, and not very entrepreneurial to me. And then I went and I said, Okay, well, let me go find the more entrepreneurial ways to do things. Oh, okay. Great. So now we’re looking at bandit signs and, and yellow letters and crappy looking postcards, and I will be up by your house and buyer websites, like our seller websites, you know, get a fast cash offer. And I was like, Oh, God, now all that just felt so disgusting to me. That I just couldn’t do it. And when it was in the process was very much about kind of like giving myself permission to just say, like, no, I need to do something that feels more like, Jeff. Because otherwise, we’re just pretending I think maybe it’s that pretending thing that just gets in our way. So much, right? If you’re in your case, if you’re pretending to be something you’re not or somebody you’re not, I’m pretending to be somebody I’m not. That doesn’t tend to work, work real well, in my, in my experience, I think that authenticity that can result from give me one self permission to just, you know, not do all this stuff that are considered, quote, best practices is a big deal.

It is, it’s a big deal for the individual and also for everyone they interact with, because people can tell when you’re being inauthentic, and it comes across, and it’s kind of icky.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah, it feels forced or, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Okay, awesome. So you know, I came across you through your Facebook group, introverts in real estate, and you do coaching and consulting and all that kind of stuff. So as we start to wrap up, like tell people a little bit more about, like, where can they find you and your work and the types of things that you do if they want to connect with you or get involved in your groups and stuff like that?

Yeah, thank you so much. My, my Facebook group is, as you said, introverts in real estate. It’s not a very clever title, but it’s easy to find. And my website is Move over extroverts.com. That’s also the name of my company. So I do one on one coaching. I also teach classes via zoom all over the country, or in person, I got to go down to San Antonio a few months ago and teach some classes in person that was so much fun.

Jeff Stephens 

Cool. That’s very cool. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. And I know that there’s a lot of people listening who, you know, whether they’re an agent or an investor or trying to figure out where they want to go considering one of the other who have a lot of themes of this, this this topic of introversion, and I know, I know I sure do. And as I look at the people I work most closely with, I think a lot of them would say that they that they have some elements of that, too. So this is super helpful. And I will and I appreciate you being here.

Of course I’m so glad to be here. Thank you.

Jeff Stephens 

Well, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Ashley Harwood as much as I enjoyed having it with her. I hope you found a lot of stuff in there that you identified with and if you’re anything like me, I bet you did. So that’s it for another episode of racking up rental. So again, show notes for this one can be found at thoughtful our e.com/e 150 Please do us a massive favor by hitting that subscribe button or follow button your podcast app and taking just a second to rate and review the show. Wherever you listen. Did you know that we have a Facebook group for thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs as well? Yes, it’s true. It’s called rental portfolio wealth builders. And we would love to have you join us over there. Just go to group dot thoughtful r e.com. And the magic of the internet will take you right to that page on Facebook and you can join us. If you liked this episode, please take a screenshot of it and post it to Instagram and tag us we’re at thoughtful real estate. So I’ll see you the next episode. Until then, this is Jeff from the thoughtful real estate entrepreneur signing off. Thanks for listening to racking up rent talks where we build long term wealth by being Win Win deal makers remember solve the person to unlock the deal and solve the financing to unlock the profits

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