Episode #2: The Difference Between Real Estate Investing and Real Estate Entrepreneurship
Listen to the episode on iTunes
Jeff discusses the important distinction between two terms that may incorrectly seem interchangeable–Real Estate Investing and Real Estate Entrepreneurship–and describes why Real Estate Entrepreneurship is the higher ideal to strive for and focus on.
Links and References in the Episode
The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don’t Work and What to Do About It
Rich Dad’s CASHFLOW Quadrant: Rich Dad’s Guide to Financial Freedom
Free PDF Guide: 5 Critical Mistakes That Make Most Real Estate Investors Accidentally Lowbrow
We’ve created a free PDF guide just for listeners of the Sleaze-Free Real Estate Investing Podcast, called “5 Critical Mistakes That Make Most Real Estate Investors Accidentally Lowbrow.”
For instant access to the PDF, just go to http://Pod.thoughtfulRE.com
The theme song is an excerpt of “No More” off the album “Golden Era” by Forest For The Trees. You can check them out on Amazon, iTunes, and Spotify.
Full Episode Transcript
This is Jeff from the Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneur, welcome to episode number two, of Sleaze Free Real Estate Investing a show for those of us who never really felt at home in the We Buy Houses crowd. And this show we take a stand against what we call the lowbrow approach the mainstream guru seminar distressed seller approach that ends up giving real estate investors a slimy reputation. Instead, we discussed the strategies tactics and philosophies that we call the thoughtful way. And enlightened approach to real estate entrepreneurship that focuses on constantly sharpening the sophisticated real estate entrepreneurs, three most critical capabilities number one seller relations skills. Number two, deal architecture and number three, opportunity vision. When all three of these capabilities are fully in successfully emotion you can make an excellent living today, and also be building long term wealth while creating value for everybody that you touch along the way.
So, today’s show notes can be found at www.thoughtfulre.com/e2. Please do yourself and do us a big favor by hitting the subscribe button in your podcast app right now if you would please.
In the last episode we discussed, my own journey, and how I got to where I’m at now, and how I got to the point where I felt like I had something to contribute that I wanted to get out to you guys through this podcast so if you haven’t heard that one please take a moment and go back and listen to that one.
In today’s main course we’re going to be discussing the difference between real estate investing and real estate entrepreneurship. But first, a little bit of food for thought.
We always start here with a little bit of food for thought because, after all, we are Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneurs and, you know, thinking that’s part of what we do best, sometimes even maybe to a fault but we like to reflect on things and here’s what we’re thinking about today.
I’ve been thinking about, and reflecting on the power of community.
Just yesterday I completed a big transaction one that I’ve been working on for quite a while, the better part of a year. In fact, it was quite complex data actually invoke two different transactions with unrelated parties unrelated sellers. Two different timelines two different paths of financing and everything about it was different, but I had to get both things done in coordination with each other else none of it would have made any sense. And yesterday when the deal got done and I finally got the confirmation from our title company that the deal I’ve been recorded and I was officially the owner. I texted my coach who has been with me, you know, every, every step, every inch of the way. And I told him that we were all recorded and was time to crack open the champagne.
Of course he wrote back to me, but within a couple minutes. I got about eight different text messages from my peers who are part of the community that I know through my coach. I didn’t let them know that I had gotten this deal done half the half of them didn’t even know I was working on this deal. But somehow, by telling my coach. He shared that with them and I was just absolutely showered with a barrage of texts from people congratulating me and telling me that I was an inspiration to them. And, you know, they can’t wait to hear all about it and they’ve seen pictures of it and everything. And the way that that felt was just tremendous I felt it just felt so supported and so loved, and it really really helped me to actually pause and celebrate, because one of the things that we love as entrepreneurs, is we love progress we love momentum.
But what the downside of that can be is that we’re always looking forward to the next day. And I’m already focused on what is the next thing with this deal and with other deals that I’m working on, which means that I could kind of gloss over the opportunity. And really, the importance of stopping to celebrate this one because this is a big win for me. And it’s important to stop and to appreciate that this savor it. And, and to reflect on the journey that got me here because that’s where the growth, and joy really comes from. So, I’m thinking about today the power of community, how you learn from each other all these people who texted me. I learned a lot from them you know tactically philosophically, I feel supported encouraged by them. And here we are cheering each other on. And my hope for you, is it you have that type of community. I hope that actually you have maybe multiple types of that community that may be in your physical world, your community, your friends, your family, other peers of what you’re doing, that those people are acting in that role for you, but I’m also hoping that the community. Community we cultivate here through the Sleaze Free Real Estate Investing podcast will also play that role and we can help each other grow and share our wins and celebrate those lines.
So that is today’s food for thought. Moving on to our main core segment, as I mentioned, we’re going to be talking today about the difference between real estate investing and real estate, entrepreneurship, frankly, the term, real estate investing has been kind of rubbed me the wrong way for a long time. And I didn’t really know what it was I had a hard time putting my finger on it, but something about real estate entrepreneurship had felt better to me.
After all I named my business the thoughtful, real estate, entrepreneur investor, but I will be the first year to point out the irony, our podcast is called Sleaze Free Real Estate Investing. And I think herein lies an important point.
The purpose of our discussion today is not to talk about the importance of splitting hairs about terminology. It’s not about developing an elitist language around what we do and being snobby about saying entrepreneur versus investing.
There is a very practical element of this which comes back to the podcast and why I named it Sleaze Free Real Estate Investing in sort of entrepreneurship is real estate investing is an accessible term that people tend to understand they might not conjure up the exact image in their minds that I’d like that too, but it’s more, more or less, they’re going to get the right idea. And if somebody were searching in the iTunes Store wherever they get their podcasts. I want them to find this podcast I want them to know what it’s going to be about. And I think the same thing is true for you to. As you were talking about what you do, you need to understand your audience and some people are going to understand real estate investing better, rather than real estate entrepreneurship, you feel free to use that term, but we’re going to get to the bottom, though, of why I think this distinction is critical and the role that understanding this distinction should play in in your world too. So while back I was thinking about how I didn’t like the one term and I like the other one more and I decided to kind of reflect more on that and try to get to the bottom of it and figure out why I felt like real estate entrepreneurship, was a better descriptor for how I saw myself.
So first let’s just take a moment and look at a couple just basic definitions I looked up in you know investor pedia what the definition of investing is, and they said investing is the act of committing money or capital to an endeavor. Parentheses a business, a project real estate etc. With the expectation of obtaining additional income or profit. Okay, that sounds pretty good, and can argue with, with that, or can argue with the desire of having an expectation of obtaining income or profit. But let’s take a look at the definition of entrepreneur, and the one that I like to refer to, is when it goes back to around, 1800.
There was a French economist named john Baptist, say, and He is credited as being the first person to coin the term entrepreneur, and what he said is the entrepreneur shifts economic resources out of an area of lower, and into an area of higher productivity and greater yield. So in other words, entrepreneurs take resources and put them into greater usefulness.
So as I look at these two definitions to me there’s a key headline that sort of summarizes the two of investing can be a passive thing. Whereas, entrepreneurship is an active process, investing could be an active process as well. But, entrepreneurship is by its very definition active, entrepreneurs, take resources from a higher level of from a lower level of utility to a higher level of utility that is an active state of being. Some entrepreneurs, create, I think create isn’t the probably the most important word to describe what entrepreneurs do investors I’d say, participate. And again, there’s nothing wrong with participating and investors can create and lead as well, but investors participate will entrepreneurs, create. And if you think about it after all. You could describe buying a share in a real it’s a real estate investment trust, kind of like a mutual fund of real estate holdings, you could describe buying a share in a read as real estate investing. And that is obviously not at all what we’re talking about in this podcast we’re talking about going out into the world and making things happen to put deals together ourselves. So investing is more passive whereas entrepreneurship is more active. And when it’s more active. An entrepreneur that means that the entrepreneur is the one driving the ship, the entrepreneurs the point guard if you want to kind of mix our analogies here, but the entrepreneurs, the one leading it there the one taking action that one making things happen. And they are the ones, putting together the resources needed to do a deal. And the cool thing about entrepreneurship is it’s super fun and it’s super engaging.
We actually in my community these people that I mentioned to you in the food for thought segment, the people who had shared me with texts, we actually all refer to real estate, as a sport. And the first time I heard that I thought it seemed kind of goofy and I kind of laughed. But the more I have gotten into it, the more I feel like that’s absolutely right, it’s competitive. I’m competing not just with other people and for deals and things like that. But I’m competing with myself. I’m competing with myself like you are in the game of golf. For instance, you’re always trying to get better and to learn new ways to do things and increase your finesse and everything else.
It’s something you can always keep practicing and getting better at.
You can always be honing your craft there’s really no finish line, as it comes to getting better in the sport of real estate entrepreneurship.
The target and the conditions that you’re playing the game in playing the sport in are always moving and evolving, you know, like, think about fishing, depending on what type of fish, you’re fishing for him which type of body of water, and what the weather’s like and what time of year it is and all those things means you need different beta, and the fish figure out this bait and you have to keep evolving to because the target is evolving and real estate is the same way. And it’s something you can just continue to do your whole life again kind of like golf. You don’t really age, out of real estate entrepreneurship, you can keep doing it, and always be having fun, and getting better.
So entrepreneurs, see, not what is their entrepreneurs see what could be there. What I heard that exact line, it really really struck me and I grabbed my pen I wrote that down verbatim as entrepreneurs. We are looking for opportunity again sorry investors investors are looking for opportunity.
But as entrepreneurs, we train ourselves in the skill of recognizing what opportunity could look like.
Now, what it could look like there’s lots of different there’s like a spectrum. Some of the things are very very obvious right if you see a rundown house and otherwise nice neighborhood. That is opportunity, what could be there is the same house but just with a new roof a paint job landscaping and kitchen remodel all that kind of stuff. That’s pretty obvious. It doesn’t take a great deal of sophistication to see that. But it is absolutely seeing what could be there instead of what is there.
It also might be less obvious like for instance if you saw a house that was in a zone. That was meant for a high rise. You might, you know you don’t see the, the zoning by just looking at the property you might see it from a context around the property if everything else around it is a high rise, that might tip you off. But that could be less obvious right, you could see a house that’s not what they would call the highest and best use in this particular zone. And that might be a little bit less obvious way of seeing opportunity. A third way of seeing opportunity might be way less obvious. For instance, something related to the financial structure of of a property for instance, if you see a property that’s got a certain financial structure somehow you’ve gained the insight to see what the financing is like and you know that it could be structured in a more advantageous way, then that scene and recognizing opportunity as well. So opportunity of what could be there. It could be very obviously what could be there could be less so of what could be there but the point is, we are as entrepreneurs, always putting on a special set of glasses. We always have a special set of glasses with lenses that help us see, we could be there and we’re always working on improving our use of those glasses and what they help us see.
Entrepreneurs are about creating value.
Entrepreneurs know that in the system of capitalism that we live in, in our country.
No money is ever made no money changes hands. Unless value is created. So, you know, whether you’re like making french fries at McDonald’s, you’re the CEO of a mega corporation or you’re selling somebody a house. Nobody is going to pay you ever. Unless they feel that they want the value you’re creating for them. More than they want the money that they have in their pocket.
It’s really as simple as that. So you don’t ever make money unless you create value for other people.
It’s a trade of what somebody has if somebody has money, they’re trading you and giving you money in exchange for the value that you’re creating for them and entrepreneurs are always really well tuned into this investors can be, but not always. For instance, if you think about people who use the word investors to describe themselves. They might say I’m, you know I’m an investor like in the stock market. Well, if you were to grab 10 people who consider themselves investors in the stock market, and they feel like they’re making money in the stock market. And if you ask those 10 people. Great. If you’re making money that means you’re creating value. How are you creating value through your investment, I would guess that maybe one at the most of those 10 people could describe how their actions are creating the value that helps them get paid. There is an answer of course to that question but it’s not terribly obvious in something like the stock market for instance you really have to think that through how contributing capital creates value for a company that then you get back.
But with real estate. It’s usually a little bit more obvious how you are creating value. So, if you want to make more money and you understand that entrepreneurship is about value creation that you go out and you create more value and there’s really two ways to create more value. You can create value for more people right so you, you create X amount of value, but now you do it for just way way way more people, or you increase the amount of value you provide to the people the word have right so you’re still serving the same number of people, but instead of x value you’re creating now you’re creating 10 x value. So you either serve more people, or you serve more to the people that you are working with and value creation and real estate command multiple things. The most obvious thing is creating value in a property again if you see that house, sitting there that is rundown and in a great neighborhood.
You can improve that property. And then people are going to be willing to pay you more to use that property or to buy it from you. This is super obvious right doesn’t take a Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneur to understand that.
And that’s what’s most common and investors think about this kind of thing too. So, this is one of the areas where investors and entrepreneurs are similar because they realize that if they improve something, then that creates value. But there’s another area of value creation that entrepreneurs, Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneurs especially tuned into that is also less, less obvious.
And that is creating value for the people who are involved in a transaction investors don’t tend to think about this, they tend to think about the investment vehicle itself by the stock glow you sell it high you buy the property low you sell it hot, but real estate, entrepreneurs, especially the Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneurs realize that creating value for all the people involved is absolutely key in fact is probably the key to getting things done and getting things done well properties are sold. For instance, by people who own them.
It’s people who own properties. And people all have unique attributes they have unique worries concerns needs, goals, motivations. So, if you’re not creating value for those people, according to what those unique motivations needs worries concerns are. If you’re not creating value by addressing those unique things for them through whatever you’re proposing to them, then they’re not going to take you up on your proposition. In other words, you can absolutely missed the mark. By making an offer or a proposal or, or some kind of a proposition to a seller. If you’re not addressing their unique needs and concerns in other words, if you’re not creating the specific type of value for them that they need to have created in order to move forward and value creation when it comes to people like this, it can it can take lots of forms to.
You can you can provide these people confidence, you can provide them your capability that you might be able to do things that they just simply can’t. You can provide them value through your creativity. If you’re able to solve problems that they can’t know the solutions that they don’t know that creates value for them. Sometimes you just create value through leadership by showing them, here’s how this works by holding their hand and by giving them confidence that things are going to come together because you know how to get this done, and you will lead the way.
Sometimes also in real estate there are multiple different parties who all need to have value created for them. In order to get a deal done like for instance think if you were a big developer, and you found a, a plot of land, and maybe a challenged part of the city, that’s owned by a private party. So now you’re trying to put this deal together in a way that involves lots of different parties and their own unique needs and concerns. In other words they’re the. Each of them has different value that has to be created for them to get it to work so for instance here you’ve got the seller of the property. Let’s say she has got her own set of needs and concerns and worries, it would have to be dressed, a specific type of value that would have to be created for her to get her to say yes, then maybe you have whoever you’re creating this building for maybe it’s a tenant base. Maybe it’s condos to be sold maybe it’s an entire apartment building that you want to sell to somebody else in the future so that they’re going to have to even though you might not know who they are, at this point, they’re going to have their own needs concerns worries, their own value that’s going to have to be created for them. It’s a challenge part of town, you might have the city that you have to work with as well. The city might need you to create a certain type of value for them to get them to say yes to your proposal for this site and what you’re going to do that. It might even be bigger than the city, it might be your regional government.
And then of course you’ve got your own needs. And so you have to create value for yourself, as well as creating value for all these different parties. So, it’s creating value for people. That is probably the biggest part of what real estate entrepreneurs, thoughtful ones especially have to be focused on all the time, not just creating value in the sticks in the bricks of the building.
Here’s another important distinction between entrepreneurs and investors, entrepreneurs, actually study entrepreneurship, a real estate investor would never really take the time to read a book like the E myth for instance the E myth by Michael Gerber I’ll put this in the show notes isn’t an excellent fun fundamental foundational book for entrepreneurs, about entrepreneurship and the construction so to speak of a small business, a real estate investor would never take the time to read the E myth, because the E myth is not for real estate investors is for entrepreneurs, it’s not about real estate at all. It’s a much more broad more general real estate investor would never take the time really to read ink magazine for instance, because why would they care what a healthcare company or a payroll services company or manufacturing company is doing. They’d never joined a group like eo, which stands for entrepreneurs organization that’s a global network of entrepreneurs, creating kind of a learning and mastermind group. And they never joined Strategic Coach. Another program that’s like a group coaching program for entrepreneurs not specific to real estate whatsoever, a real estate investor would not do any of that kind of stuff but an entrepreneur, absolutely would because they want to learn about business as a whole. They want to learn about entrepreneurship, even when it’s not their field, their industry of entrepreneurship, they want to learn fundamental foundational business principles, and then figure out how to apply them into real estate.
Real Estate Investors tend to study, real estate investing. They tend to study the tactics the strategies that tips the tricks the hacks, very real estate subject matters specific things they go to real estate investing conferences and talk to other real estate investors, so they can learn the tactical things related to their specific field.
But what this means is that real estate entrepreneurs now are thinking on a different level they’re thinking of a higher level, they’re thinking about the concepts of business and entrepreneurship and how they apply into a real estate context.
When I was in high school, I was good at math. I would say not amazing at math but I was better at math and most of my most of my colleagues I guess my classmates. And so I was always in like what one or two math classes kind of ahead of everybody else so when I was like a freshman, it was juniors and stuff, who were in my math classes a lot. And one thing that I noticed that, you know, as I was like why am I doing better than these other people. And one of the things that I noticed was that I focused on learning the, the why behind a math problem like for instance and trigonometry. And by the way, I don’t remember any of this now but I was good at it at the time. In trigonometry, I would understand why a particular problem was solved the way it was solved, I didn’t really focus on memorizing the steps of how to solve an equation or problem, I figured I focused on learning why it worked the way it did. Whereas I could see all of my classmates were focused on memorizing the steps, but I was focusing more on the higher level idea like why does this work. And so what that meant was, when the test came all along, and they put a problem in front of us that we’ve never seen before.
The other people were trying to replicate their memorization of the steps here’s what you do here here here they didn’t understand why necessarily, you did the steps, but they just remember the steps. And that was great until they couldn’t remember the steps anymore. But I, on the other hand, I remember to the principles behind it. I remember why it worked the way it did. So when I encountered a trig problem that I had never seen before. I was able to figure it out because I looked at the principles behind it.
And the same thing here is true of the idea of entrepreneurship is if you’re learning about entrepreneurship, outside the context of your own industry. I truly believe that those lessons you learn are so much more valuable. I honestly just give you a really specific example. I think I could learn more about, you know, managing employees from somebody who owned a plumbing company. Then from another real estate investor, because I would be forced to process the lesson I was learning from that, owner of a plumbing company at a fundamental level, I, there was be no opportunity for me to just hear what she was saying tactically about plumbing company employees, because it would be totally irrelevant to me I’d be forced to hear the underlying concepts and then be forced to translate those into my own context of real estate. And by doing that, I would learn the key under lying lesson so much better. So that’s why I recommend you do join eo entrepreneurs organization I am a member of that I do recommend you join Strategic Coach. I’m a client of Strategic Coach as well. And we don’t talk about real estate ever in those things but I learned so much about entrepreneurship that makes me a better entrepreneur.
So I think another question you have to ask yourself is where are you in your career, you know, in Episode One, one of the things I mentioned was that I learned so much at the very beginning about real estate and so much of what got me fired up was through the book Rich Dad Poor Dad and that led to the other books in that series. And one of the other books in that series is one called the cashflow quadrant.
And in the cashflow quadrant they described that there are four different sort of levels of, of being a money making person, you can be an employee. That’s one quadrant, you can be self employed as a second quadrant. You can be a business owner, or you can be an investor. And in the case of the cashflow quadrant investor is actually the highest level, the highest form of making money that they that they described. And when you’re an investor in that case you know you’re basically putting money to work, rather than you’re putting your time and your energy to work, and in the rich dad philosophy there they’re saying that putting money to work is a higher form than putting time and energy to work. And so I feel like it’s important to acknowledge that. And here I am saying it’s better to be an entrepreneur, which is a much more active role than just an investor.
But here’s I think the thing is, that’s the key.
It depends on where you are in your career, maybe eventually I’ll have grown to the size of, you know, portfolio or network or whatever, that I want to grow to, and I’ll decide to just stop being active as an entrepreneur and then just transition to being an investor. Maybe that’s what I will, will want down the road, I don’t know, but I can tell you that at this point in my career. I love the sport of real estate entrepreneurship, and I am still in a growth mode.
I’m happy with where my portfolio is now but I’m not ready to stop. I want to continue be being active. I want to continue being the guy who’s creating things, who’s running the ship, it’s fun, frankly, and I feel like I’m controlling my own destiny and I’m growing as a person. I’m growing as an entrepreneur, and I’m growing my, my own wealth as well so I don’t want to stop playing the sport of real estate entrepreneurship to become an investor but at some point. Maybe I will at some point, maybe you will as well.
So all this said here’s what I want to give you as my definition of being a real estate entrepreneur.
My definition goes like this. Real Estate entrepreneurs, recognize and identify an opportunity to create value.
Negotiate to secure the rights to unlock that opportunity and lead the effort to capture the value that is created from the opportunity.
That’s my definition so let’s just break this down for a second. The first thing I mentioned was recognize and identify an opportunity. This goes back to that special set of glasses that we’re always wearing as real estate entrepreneurs, and we’re always cultivating our ability to use them more and more. You have to be able to see opportunity. And ideally, see opportunity where other people are not seeing the opportunity.
Secondly, you have to negotiate to secure the rights that unlock that opportunity. Once you’ve seen this opportunity now you need to put yourself in a position where you You are the one who’s going to be able to capitalize on this thing that you have just identified and recognize. And that means negotiating with people, they might not even know what it is exactly you’re trying to accomplish. Oftentimes, if you’re doing it right, they don’t. And that’s great, but you’re now trying to work to understand what they need and what value you’d have to create for them to get them to say, to give you the yes you need to secure this opportunity that you have recognized. The third thing as I said is you have to lead the effort to capture the value lead the effort now I didn’t say you have to do everything yourself as a real estate entrepreneurship, or entrepreneur you may bring together several resources you might bring together a person with money, another person with money, a contractor, a development consultant property manager you might bring together a lot of different parties but you are the point guard you’re the person with the ball who’s going to be distributing the ball to the right people at the right time. And that’s what being an entrepreneur is. And the last thing I said there is that you’re leading this effort to capture the value that’s created from the opportunity. So once you’ve recognized the opportunity the front end, now you’re leading this effort, and you need to now kind of extract this value that you’ve created. So if you see the opportunity for instance to build this new home for 300,000 and sell it for 400,000, that is capturing the value that you’ve created and there’s lots of different ways to capture value. You don’t just necessarily have to sell something there’s, there’s lots of different ways but whatever it is. Your job is to sort of close the loop of the identity of the opportunity you recognize at the front end by actually capturing that at the end, after all the work has been done.
So here’s what I want you to take away from this. Like I said, the beginning, this is not about splitting the hairs of terminology. It’s not about feeling more sophisticated because you use the term real estate entrepreneur versus investor although I would say honestly I do feel a little more sophisticated when I say that, that’s not what this is about. And I’m certainly not implying that you cannot use the term, real estate investor. I’m using the term in the name of this podcast because I want it to be relatable to people and I suggest you do the same thing. But here is the most important part.
I want you, no matter what words you use to the outside world, I want you to think of yourself as a real estate entrepreneur, not a real estate investor. If you’re listening to this show you’re probably in growth mode in your career, you’re probably not ready to just put it neutral and Coast, as an investor, you’re probably trying to make things happen you’re probably trying to create a life for yourself, you’re probably trying to create value in the world that you can be rewarded for and what I want you to do is, forget about what language gets used with other people, as you’re talking to yourself what you do all the time. I want you to think of yourself as a real estate entrepreneur, you’re an entrepreneur, whose business happens to be in real estate. This is such a key distinction, a real estate investor is one thing, but an entrepreneur, whose business happens to be in real estate is a completely different thing in terms of the way it makes you think about yourself and what you’re doing.
If you’re doing this, and you’re thinking of yourself as an entrepreneur whose businesses in real estate.
That means you’re focused on creating value for people.
That means you’ll be focused all the time on creating value in the product itself the property itself.
You’ll be focused on seeing what could be there, not just what is there, and you’ll be thinking all the time, in terms of the underlying business principles by what you’re doing, not just the real estate tactical applications.
So guys before we wrap up today just a few important notes. We have created a free PDF guide that you can download for free it’s just for listeners of Sleaze Free Real Estate Investing. And it’s called Five critical mistakes that make most real estate investors accidentally lowbrow.
If you want instant access to that PDF guide, just head over to http://pod.thoughtfulre.com. Thank you for listening to Sleaze Free Real Estate Investing I really do appreciate it. On the next episode, we’re going to be discussing why Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneurs which by the way, if you look at that acronym software real estate entrepreneurs it’s a treat. So we’re going to be discussing why trees work directly with sellers and not through agents.
Again, please do yourself and do us a big favor by hitting the subscribe button in whatever podcast app you prefer to use, and then that way you’ll know the second that the next episode is released. You can find the show notes for this episode, including a full transcript at www.thoughtfulre.com/E2. Until next time, this is Jeff from the Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneur, signing off.
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