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As real estate investors, we are growth-oriented creatures. We want to grow our portfolios, wealth and cash flow to achieve financial freedom. But most of us also want to grow as humans as well; fortunately, the two go hand-in-hand. In this episode, Jeff interviews real estate entrepreneur Alexandra Haider, who—in just the first five years of her real estate investing career—has built a portfolio of hundreds of residential units and hundreds of thousands of square feet of commercial real estate. Alexandra shares her story, tips for growing into new and bigger deal types, and growing as a person and entrepreneur along the path.
Episode Transcript
Alexandra
Even though as before that, you know things change every time nothing has been the same. None of these deals have been the same. No, none of the problems have really been the same. You are still figuring out as you go. And so I think it’s just stop talking yourself out of it.
Jeff Stephens
Welcome to Racking Up Rentals, a show about how regular people, those of us without huge war chest of capital or insider connections, can build lasting wealth acquiring a portfolio of buy and hold real estate. But we don’t just go mainstream looking at what’s on the market and asking banks for loans, nor are we posting We Buy Houses signs are just looking for “motivated sellers” to make lowball offers to. You see, we are people-oriented deal makers, we sit down directly with sellers to work out win-win deals without agents or any other obstacles, and buy properties nobody else even knows are for sale. I’m Jeff from the Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneur. If you’re the kind of real estate investor who wants long term wealth, not get rich quick gimmicks or pictures of yourself holding fat checks on social media, this show is for you. Join me and quietly become the wealthiest person on your block. Now let’s go rack up a rental portfolio.
Thank you very much for joining me for another episode of Racking Up Rentals. Show notes for this episode can be found at www.thoughtfulre.com/e196. Please do us a big favor by hitting that subscribe button in your podcast app, it does make a big difference in helping other fellow thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs who are searching for a community in a message like this to find it. Alright, so onward with today’s episode.
And in today’s episode, I’m really excited to share with you a great interview a conversation I had with a newer friend of mine, Alexandra hater. And now she comes from the same kind of school of thought and background and coaching community that I come from. And so I’ve gotten to know her a little bit over the last several months and have been just unbelievably impressed by her and everything she’s doing and who she is, but also just extremely inspired. And as I will mention in this interview to her, I felt very immediately, like challenged to be a bigger, better version of myself by her story. And so I know you’re gonna get a ton of value out of this too. It’s going to be super inspiring to see what a person can accomplish it really in just a few short years by continuing to think bigger and push themselves to grow personally as well as in their portfolio. So enough of me blabbing. Let’s get on with his awesome interview with Alexandria hater.
Jeff Stephens
Okay, Alexandra, thank you so much for joining me today. Welcome to Racking Up Rentals.
Alexandra
Thank you, I’m very excited to be here. So thanks for inviting me.
Jeff Stephens
Well, I’m really excited to and I gotta tell you, before I even knew you. And you know, we’re still kind of getting to know each other. But when I was only like aware of who you are, I immediately knew like, this is somebody who I can I can learn a lot from and somebody who I can be challenged by. And so I’m just grateful to get the chance to spend some more time with you and have you tell the good people here. Listen to this show about your story, which I think is awesome. And I want to just tell you first I have like a theme. I’ve never, I’ve never like imposed a theme in an interview before, but I think it’s gonna be a natural theme. I think you’ll I think you’ll be down with this. And the theme is in the words that you and I hear all the time of our mutual friend and mentor, Greg Pineo. Growth is the grill and sameness is the enemy. And when I think of what I know about your story, and when I think of what I know, people will love to hear about your story. I think it’s it to me it’s a story of growth and like lots of different dimensions of what growth is. But does that theme sound fair enough to you?
Alexandra
That sounds great to me. Yes. When you’re saying there was a theme. I was like, Oh, I hope I didn’t actually like to get on board with a seat. But this is a great thing. So I’m excited. And just like you know, before I knew who you were, I felt the same way about you. So I’m excited to be here and also learning.
Jeff Stephens
Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I really appreciate that. So, growth is the Grail sameness is the enemy I think it’s so easy to assume growth just means like growing in size, and you do a deal this big. And the next one is twice as big. The next one’s twice as big. And that’s one aspect of it. But I think a lot about like the growth though as as a person and I’m excited to sort of unpack both of those with you because from what I know about your story, like both of those things have been very true like a lot of growth in the sort of literal like obvious sense of numbers and deal sizes and property sizes and square feet and all that but then this other journey to of kind of like growing personally and continuing to find like your own niche in in the real estate world overall. So that’s kind of what I’m going to try to lead us to unpack a little bit about that but Uh, why don’t like let’s start at an obvious spot if you don’t mind. Who is this Alexandria hater person? Who are you?
Alexandra
Yeah, so, um, a little bit of backstory about me. I was born and raised in technically unincorporated, an unincorporated village, outside voeckler, Wisconsin, but basically grew up in the country, right outside of a decent sized city and Wisconsin, my parents owned a business, but they also had student rentals. And so I grew up, essentially helping them to do the turnover, when when student tenants would move out, there was a period of basically a week that we would go in, and my parents were completely hands on with us, they didn’t hire anybody. So we would go and we would turn over these units. And it was like, A, essentially a week of very, very long days that were like, not the most fun for us as kids. Because we were always on like cleaning duty. And it was just annoying. At that age, in hindsight, very glad that we were brought into that, because I could see it and you know, I was kind of I was like, kept in the dark with what my parents were doing.
And so anyways, um, you know, grew up with parents who were entrepreneurs, they also owned another business asbestos abatement. And then I was kind of thinking that I wanted to be maybe a teacher, I wasn’t 100% Sure. Originally, so I finished high school went to the University of Minnesota for college, I originally thought, I don’t know what I want to be. So I’ll be a veterinarian when a couple of years and animal sciences, and then my dad was like, you don’t want to spend all day with your hand up a cow’s butt. So I was like, Well, no, that’s not really what I want. And he was convinced that would be what would happen. And so I was kind of like trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And ended up deciding to be a teacher wasn’t sure what I wanted to teach that I would maybe do psychology or something like that. And then again, dad was like, No, you want to do one of the core subjects like always have a job as like, oh Smart Point dad, so I decided to become an English teacher. Actually went through and got my master’s degree in education of English literature and Communication Arts.
But anyways, I was a teacher for about three years. After year two, I was like, this is just really not what I want to do for the rest of my life. And I was in a more urban higher poverty, probably, you know, lower achieving district my first two years, and it was very difficult, mentally draining, and it was it was really hard. And so then my third year I switched to a more affluent, and what would be considered an easier quote unquote district. And it wasn’t a lot of ways but it still wasn’t what I wanted to do forever and you know, as a teacher, I was also for the majority of that time I was still in school I actually got even more than my master’s degree, not no title or anything, just additional courses because I’m trying to work my way up the pay schedule, right? Um, and I was also coaching and in the summers I worked at a restaurant and so I was working a lot and I was doing that because I really wanted to travel and I didn’t want to always be so tight on money and and so in the back of my mind, I always knew that you know, look at what my parents did they bought investment properties and so as a W two employee, I was thinking the best thing to do would be to get anywhere from a two to four unit get a traditional Fannie Mae or Freddie you get loan you know, and, and house hack live in one unit, how the other unit or units pay for my rent. And so that was the plan.
And so I started offering on properties and offered on a lot of properties and became good friends with my realtor. He was really cool and he basically convinced me because during this time we you know, we’re working together for a long time we probably put in maybe 20 offers we’ve put in a lot of offers and I just never got an offer accepted I was able to put minimum down I wanted inspection. I was offering I’m really low price point houses that a lot of people are trying to get you know, it wasn’t like grout a groundbreaking unique idea that I had that no one else had had like this is what it beginning investors want to do. And this was what I wanted to do.
So anyways, John and I became friends and after You know, a couple of months, he actually one evening was like, you know, you really should look into doing real estate, he’s like, I think you would love it, I think you’d be good at it, I’d love to have you on my team. And he was looking to grow a team. So it was actually I decided to do it, it was actually just him and I. And so anyways, I agreed to it. But the plan was that I was still going to teach, and then I was going to do real estate after I was done teaching. You know, on evenings and weekends, I was like, Well, this is perfect, I maybe I won’t coach anymore. But I’ll still be able to do both of these things.
Well, I started doing real estate in the summer. And at that time, I was just doing summer school and summer school is like four hours a day, and four days a week. And even which is that I was starting to build business and starting to get listings, and obviously still looking for investment properties for myself. And just in that period of short period of time, I was like, there’s just no way that I can do both of these and do either of them well, and I like this so much more. And so I decided I was gonna be done teaching and devoting myself full time to real estate. I know a lot of people have considered doing something similar. For me, I feel kind of blessed because as a teacher, you know, I got those paychecks through the summer still, you’re technically supposed to have your summers off, right? Not many people take those off. But, um, so my last paycheck came, and then two weeks later was my first commission. And so I never had that leg, thank God because I didn’t really have much of a savings. And I would I feel very fortunate to have been in that position.
But anyways, so I started doing real estate full time, I was introduced to my first investment property by my brother, so my brother was already investor, he dropped out of college, which I thought was like the worst thing in the world. I’m really cool. Brother. His name’s Jake Bracken wagon. But anyways, he found this little house in the middle of nowhere. And he was like, you know, this is too small for me, but would you want to do it? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. He’s like, Okay, well, whatever you sell it, give me 20% of the profit and take it. So I bought this little house in the middle of nowhere, Wisconsin, for $16,000, which I had to borrow half of that. And literally, it was like, the middle of nowhere. So no cell phone reception there. No internet, it was also unincorporated. There was one person who lived across the street and definitely was on drugs. He’d be like running around in the rain swinging on swings, and like basketball like himself, but like, was an adult. And it was just like, it was odd. And so I was there. And I was trying to figure out how to do house renovations, and people would come and visit me. So or like helped me, you know, my boyfriend at the time. Now, my husband would come and help. But he had a dog too. And so like, a lot of time, it was just myself and my sister came once, my parents came, my brother came, taught me how to dry well, that was like, horrible. I did the worst drywall or is very heavy, like so heavy. And yeah, like I made a ton of mistakes there and made a lot of things look really ugly and had to redo them and cried a lot blood a lot and like learned a lot and ended up finishing this house. And I sold it for 70,000 on a contract for deed. So I got all my money back. And then I’m actually still to this day getting monthly payments, and then within like, now at this point, like another year, he has to refinance me out. So that was my first deal. Um, and from that I learned a ton. Yep, go ahead.
Jeff Stephens
So I’m just like trying to, like pin this in time for like a point of reference for people. What about what year was that when you did this first single family deal?
Alexandra
I bought it in November of 2018.
Jeff Stephens
Okay, right. So for people listening now or in the future, we’re recording this in August of 2023. So this is less than five years ago? Yes. So less than five years ago. And so let’s put a pin in that for a second. And let’s talk about kind of what you’re doing right now. And then I think it’d be great to talk about what has happened in between that has allowed you the growth that you’ve had growth in terms of financial stuff like we talked about, but also the growth on the personal side. So like if we were to just take a snapshot of what your real estate investment life looks like today, what does that look like that?
Alexandra
I’m so my favorite asset class now is strip malls. I like retail strip malls. I own three of them, and I’m actively looking to acquire more For, I saw about 250 doors of apartments, and a little shy of 400,000 square feet of real estate. So a lot different than it was back then. Yeah. But yeah, it’s been really fun. And yeah, yeah.
Jeff Stephens
So okay, so Okay, hopefully everybody listening is like, wow, the bookends of what we just established, right? $16,000 single family home to $400,000 of our 400,000 feet of commercial space and 250 apartments all that there’s a big gap between those and only five years that happened between them. So I hope that everybody listening will not just be like, Oh, wow, look how much more money she’s making. Now. Although that’s absolutely true, too. I’d like to understand. So when when I when I saw you present recently, and kind of go like, deal by deal through this. Yeah, my takeaway was like, there was a very quick evolution of deal type, right? Like, it wasn’t like, let me do 10 Single Family ones. And then okay, I’ll do 10 duplexes, and then I’ll do 10 For plexes. It was like each one was kind of like, different than the one previously. What do you think sort of enabled you to either have the skills or the confidence or the inspiration to kind of do something different each time?
Alexandra
So, okay, so initially, when I was doing residential, because I did start out with, you know, multi, you know, a few single families, and then small, smaller multifamily to bigger multifamily. Um, that, to me was familiar. And I was like, I understand this, right, I grew up, my parents did this, this is just people, I’ve been a tenant my whole life, I understand the basics of it. So that was, to me, pretty simple. Um, I also, you know, my husband got his contractor’s license. In the beginning, he was helping me a lot. And I feel like I have, and I think a lot of people have at least somebody who’s pretty handy that they know, you know. So that was pretty easy to start off with.
But then, you know, I bought my first maybe not even a year after that, that first deal I talked about, I bought my first commercial property. And my first commercial property had four apartments above three commercial units. And I was like, Okay, well, I hate the commercial units. I don’t understand them. I don’t know what I’m doing. They’re all vacant, right? Oh, no, there was a, there was a thrift store and one of them. But I was like, even if I can’t figure out these commercial, at least I know what I’m doing what the apartments above. And so, um, you know, the crazy thing was, once I got started on it, I was like, I love these commercial tenants, because their business is, and the commercial tenants, I really enjoy meeting with people who have these goals for themselves. And they’re really ambitious. And they’re like, No, this was a smaller property kind of in it was in northern Minnesota. So not like a big, it was an hengli. So kind of a smaller town. But these people, it was their, their first business, you know, or one of their first businesses. They’re not like really established, but they’re very excited about this. And they’re excited about opportunity. And for me, I was really excited that they were excited. Yeah. So once I started seeing in my mixed use, where I was, like, get having apartments, and I did a bunch of these. And then commercial below once I started seeing, um, you know, these commercial tenants and how that worked. I loved it. And so it made it pretty easy for me to I think mixed use is kind of good for people, because they know what they’re doing. Typically, with residential, I feel like this is the traditional, if they switch to commercial, I feel like this is very common the way that I’m doing it. But But yeah, I think it was really nice for me to have these mixed use and see how much I liked the commercial units. Yeah. And then of course, you know, that I bought my first commercial property that was in Waseca in a portfolio of mixed use. And there was one that was commercial only. And I loved that and then I started buying little well. And then I bought my first strip mall, which was 37,000 square feet. So yeah.
Jeff Stephens
Oh my gosh. So the first the first commercial property was it was not like you sat down so I think I’m gonna just consciously make the decision to move into commercial it was a little by happenstance right but you but you did expose yourself to new things that you that you hadn’t done before. And so well, I guess I’m gonna have to learn to figure this out. But then it turns out the new thing was, was the thing that you liked better, right?
Alexandra
Yes, exactly. And, and one thing too, you know, in hindsight, I’m buying properties with commercial units in I was buying in the smaller cities, right? That’s actually a lot more difficult to rent out than commercial on a busy street and a busy city. So, you know, really, if you can rent those out, it should be a lot easier for you to find tenants for bigger, more expensive and higher density. And, you know, like, in more, I guess, like, sought after areas. So because I was able to do that when I got into better areas and locations. It was actually, like, more simple for me. And that was pretty fun. Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Stephens
I was just thinking about the, like, how I can relate to where were you were in that point, like, actually, I’m recording this right now. I’m in I’m in our one commercial building. Okay. Most of what we had what we do residential, yeah. This is one commercial building. I bought it not because it was a commercial building Exactly. But because it’s a gorgeous building in a great location, which is sort of the same standard I would use for our residential stuff, too. But I feel like you just described, which sort of like, I’m not exactly sure I’m not exactly sure, like perfectly how to run it, I sort of run it not too differently than I run my residential properties.
But you know, even like, recently, so this is like street level retail, and then some offices above small overall, but eight total tenants. And, you know, one of my retail ones was going to leave a few months ago. And at that moment, I was like, I felt concerned because I didn’t in my sleep, now I can turn over a residential unit, which, you know, we’ve got it down, obviously, because you just do it a lot. But in this case, I was like, worried, I don’t really know exactly how to do this. I mean, and and these are small, small units, and they are mom and pop businesses. I’m kind of treating them in this sort of mom and pop way. So we’re posting like ads on Craigslist and things like this. But this property doesn’t feel to me so much like, oh, you hire a commercial commercial leasing agent, you pay a whole lot. You have this huge commission, and you have this huge TI budget. This feels small, but all that feels so unfamiliar that it does it kind of it’s embarrassing to say, but it kind of scares me or it makes me just feel like unconfident, right, like, energetically. I’m just like pushing it away going. Oh, no, no. So I totally know like, what, what you felt like, but what I love is that you blasted right through that, though. And you’re like, oh, no, actually, I like figuring this new thing out. And I like I look at myself, oh my gosh, this is almost holding me back from that type of growth. Because like, there’s that new thing to get familiar with it. I’m not there yet.
Alexandra
So did you rent out that unit?
Jeff Stephens
I did. But we actually rented it to an adjacent tenant who wanted to expand.
Alexandra
So that’s perfect. And that happens a lot actually. Yeah. So I mean, honestly, it’s, it’s so fun for me meeting with the mom and hops. Because they, they’re my favorites. You know, I’ve had them cry and be so excited that we’re giving them a chance and and this is their goal and their, their dream for their life. And usually, a lot of times you’re getting them started and then you’ll get to see them expand. It’s amazing. And it’s very rewarding. So yeah, I really enjoy it.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, so So the properties that you’re buying now are they still like these are beyond Mom and Pop tenants. Alright, these are more like regional or national type tenants or is a kind of a mix.
Alexandra
It’s a mix. So I still definitely rent to some, you know, Mom and Pop type tenants and I love that. But I also have some national tenants. So I would I’m not buying Class A retail, I’m definitely you probably more of a Class B Class C, but I do have criteria for what I’m looking for. And and I really like filling those units and a lot of times we’ll start them with shorter leases. And then once they’re successful, we’ll extend the leases to longer leases. So it is maybe this is still part of my transition, right where maybe five years from now it’ll be more longer leases national tennis exclusively. Who knows? I really am enjoying this part of it though.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s very cool. And did you decide so when you when you hit this thing, where you’re like, Okay, I need to learn how to lease up these units and manage them and just learn how the dynamics and the contracts and all that are very different than residential? Did you decide to learn all of that yourself and sort of act as your own leasing agent and are you still doing that now? Or did you say no, you know what, everything is outsourced double I can just build a team and now we have leasing agents for our space like if you’re going to, you know, completely return at a strip mall that you buy and that you love and you see all this potential in our You mostly leasing it up yourself? Or do you have a team that’s doing that? No.
Alexandra
So I’m both so and one of our centers, we have a leasing broker. And my first one I did, I did it with my brother and then my other partner. And the three of us, one of them is more, he was more of a mentor of this. And so he was not very hands on. My brother and I were hands on, we reached the third owners of it, I did. I think when we stabilize it, I think every time it was actually my, um, I did the lease, except for there was one tenant who knew Rafi who was my mentor, he had been in other strip malls with that Rafi Oh, and so the rest of them I did the leasing myself. And and it was, it wasn’t that difficult.
To be honest, the majority of the leads, I was worried about this, right? Like, how do I advertise this? What do I do, I’m throwing on proxy, Facebook, Craigslist, everything you’re saying, um, we did it on costar, the majority of my leads actually came from the billboard, um, you know, the big sign in front of people see it, and we put big signs in the window for lease call texts, my number, and it was as simple as answering my phone and meeting with them. Now, that was about an hour and a half away from me. So the first couple I did drive out there. And then towards the end, I started having actually my sister who lives in Eau Claire, she would just open the door for them. Um, and then I would do the negotiation negotiating and stuff, at least the first time, she wouldn’t be there to open the door. So I’m not driving all the way to Eau Claire. That is my closest strip my own all of them. So you know, that’s what we’ve kind of been doing is having someone there to just open the door, and then I’m doing the negotiating, I’m talking to them on the phone, I’m explaining what we can do there. They’re the boots on the ground, opening the door, but I do not want them leasing it, I want to be leasing it, we did hire a company.
So the next one we purchased was in Illinois. And that one I purchased again with my mentor, and we’re 5050 owners of it. We tried having a leasing company lease out the vacancies there. Um, in one year, they did not fill any, any new vacancies, and was like, What is going on? Like, are we overpriced? Was this just a horrible area and we didn’t know like what’s happening. So I let them go. And within three months, I had signed three leases myself. So I don’t know what it is. But I’m hesitant to let somebody else tried to do that.
Now, my most recent acquisition is another strip mall in Ohio. And that leasing agent is doing a great job. And she’s she’s there a lot and she’s helping us with even additional things like we had a new roof put on, there was an issue where it was leaking, and you know, the things that happen, but it’s an Ohio, so that’s an 11 hour drive for me or a flight. Not easy to get to. So she’s been really helpful there. And I’m letting her doing do the leasing there. And she’s been doing a good job. So I think it really is, it’s hard to know who you can trust and who’s actually going to do a good job with the leasing and care. But I think, um, you know, on that second one, I let it go too long, we had signed this contract and it was for a year and, um, you know, I, I should have probably terminated that sooner, but you don’t know what you don’t know. And I hadn’t done this before. And I would kept thinking they’re like, Well, this was common, this is not abnormal, like, and then I was thinking there’s something wrong with the location. Well, I took it back in and now we’re I’m finding another week today. Um, so it’s just, I don’t know, it was a learning experience like everything.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah. So here’s a question. That’s, that’s not necessarily part of unpacking your story. But just like something I need to learn personally, is, again, my main reference point, and I’m sure a lot of our listeners too is residential, right? So if you, you get a feel for your market, you know, what people want to rent? What rents should be if somebody has not rented you can see, it’s usually not hard to see why what you’d have to do to get it to a spot that fits what the market wants. Yes, when I take all those thoughts and put them in commercial, I feel less sure of myself, I guess. So I came home from power players recently after seeing your presentation. I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna go into my community of small towns and look for like, basically strip malls and things like that, that don’t look like they’re being managed very well. Or with some vacant units and try to do my thing in that context. But I feel this sort of like lack of confidence myself in knowing for sure what makes a for a good strip mall, like, there’s part of the back of my head is like, if that place is if that unit is vacant now and this was a great building, wouldn’t it be filling up even if the place wasn’t managed very well. So I guess what I’m saying is like trying to get to a level of confidence, like in my residential stuff, I know exactly what we’ll read. There’s, there’s very few surprises to me with that. Like, I know that market, but shifting to commercial, especially like small retail and stuff like that feels scarier and more speculative, because I don’t know, like, what the just total layups are necessarily, how does one How does one cover the gap? That’s I don’t know, I’m not sure if my question is clear.
Alexandra
But no, I get what you’re saying. Definitely. Because that was 100% the reason why when my first partial building, I was like, well, crap, it has these commercial units, I like it enough to keep it even though it has those. For for one thing, I’m seeing vacancies in a good building does not mean that there’s something wrong with the building, right? So if you have heavy traffic counts there, and there’s, you know, maybe like some tennis around the area, it’s in a good commercial area. And maybe you have some some like, I don’t know, like a subway or McDonald’s or anything like that. And you’re there, you’re like, Okay, well, this is an area where some of these bigger businesses want to go. And so I have found, and I’ve heard from a lot of other people who do this, that a lot of these leasing brokers are commercial, they just don’t make enough in it to really care that much. And so like I said, with that one building, it did not get leased for a year, and then I took it over, and it got done. And I think it’s just returning the phone calls quickly. And, and really caring. And as the owner, if you sign a five year lease, you know, often it’s worth millions of dollars. As a broker, it’s worth, I don’t know, you know, 6% or 3%. And it’s just not at the top of their priority list. And so, and depending on who it is, right, like my broker in Ohio, so we get amazing job, and she really cares. But I don’t think seeing vacancies is a red flag. That’s what I’m looking for. So I always still want value add with a strip mall. Yeah. And traffic counts. You know, like, for me, my minimums, if I have 16,000 vehicles per day pathing in front of it, I think it’s a good area.
Jeff Stephens
Okay, cool, thank you. Like, that gives me confidence that it is a learnable thing is just a slightly different context for some of the same principles and it like I I’ve basically never buy like turnkey properties that I want to be adding my I want to be using my entrepreneurship to, to create value for the building and myself. So okay, so going back to this, like idea of your own growth journey. So we started this off by talking about Greg, our mutual mentor. And then you also just mentioned a minute ago, Rafiq, would you speak a little bit to the role that mentors have played in in your overall journey these last five years and sort of like how, how they’ve helped you become a better version of yourself and continue to grow both as a person but as a, you know, as a portfolio to?
Alexandra
For sure. So I think a lot of people, their biggest thing that holds them back is being scared of the unknown. And when you have someone in your corner, like Greg, like rafeeq, who has done it before, and can essentially assure you that you can do it yourself, right? Like they’re not doing this for me. But having somebody who has done this before, and if I have questions can be like, Oh, it’s just this or, you know, don’t worry about it. Even just a simple like, you got this you can do it. I’m somebody who has experienced it before. And I’m, and who I see as being very confident and who I admire, having them just in the background kind of looking over these, these deals, has made me way more confident than I would have been on my own.
So that first sale for example, I know Claire, this was before I had met Greg yet. And so my first strip mall was actually right before my first power players and so my I found it and I found it about a year before I even brought it to anybody, maybe six months, but it was a long time I was looking at us like God this like seems like it’d be a good deal if it’ll clear where I’m from. But I’m scared. I don’t know anything about commercial right? So my brother and I go on a vacation and I So it’s my brother. And we’re both looking at it’s kind of daunting. And we’re like, this seems like it’d be a good. Like, we could do it. But how do we know? And why hasn’t the current owner been able it was at 50% vacancy, we’re like, Well, we know the area, it’s a good area, what’s wrong with this property? Um, you know, it’s, it’s scary, and it’s millions of dollars, and I can’t afford for that not to go right. And so, Jake, and I got really interested in it, we looked into it a lot. On this particular deal, there was also a land lease in place, which we were also not familiar with. We understood the general concept, but we had to negotiate out of that, actually, we ended up doing that, at the closing a little bit before the closing, but we did a double closing.
So anyways, Jake, and I then were very interested in this and had spoken with the broker and everything and felt a little more confident. And then I was like, Jake, we should like, really bring someone in who, who really knows what he’s doing so that we brought Rafi again, so then the three of us and once we had rafeeq there, who is not the hands on person, but he was a great mentor to be able to be like, you gotta do this, and you got to do this, um, you know, like, as simple as like, putting my my signs in the windows, right? I was I had a design, he’s like, no simple, just call text your number. Like, okay, well, I’ll do that, then it you know what I mean? Like, just little things that he’s learned over the years that now I also know. But it’s nice having somebody who has done it, and who can save you from making the stupid mistakes that you’d probably make. And so I’m very, very glad that we did bring rafeeq into that. Because realistically, without somebody like him, we probably would have been too scared to close on it on our own.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, yeah. So a mentor can definitely help obviously with, yep, illuminating the path in front of you, like don’t step on that pothole, or definitely do this and things like that. Yeah. The other thing I’ve experienced, I’d love to hear your your take on this, too. Is, I feel it, you know, working with Greg, I feel like one of the things he’s done the most for me is that he, you know, he’s looked at me, he’s understood me and he’s pulled he’s he’s seen the things that have the most potential. And he’s pulled them out. And he’s made those things, the focus. And these days, I’m starting to refer to this more as like strengths based real estate entrepreneurship, like, like, figure out who you are like, what are you the What are you magic at? It, let’s make sure that that like everything else is kind of designed around that.
So one of my one of the things I guess I wanted to find out from you. So I just think this is fascinating, like, paradox, a little bit of growing is this is this process of like expansion, but I also kind of feel like, as you grow, in some ways, you get narrower and narrower and narrower, because you know, who you are more and more and more and you understand, like, where you add the value the best and your focus gets clearer and clearer. And it’s just weird to me, because those things sound almost like opposites expanding, but also focusing a little bit. So I guess, I just want to hear like, how do you feel? How do you feel like that process has gone for you, because like, you are probably a much more honed in in some way specific version of a real estate entrepreneur than you were five years ago, when you’re probably kind of more open to everything. Does that make sense?
Alexandra
It does. Yeah. And so that’s actually something that Greg has helped me a lot with as well. Right. So, you know, and he talks about this a lot. Like, there’s certain things that as entrepreneurs like ourselves, we should be doing, and there are certain things that we should be delegating. And in the beginning, you’re doing everything right. And, and that’s good. I think it’s really good to have experience in learning how to do how to change a toilet and how to do these things that you expect other people to do. And you expect them to be easy and just get done. But but they’re difficult things and sometimes things go wrong. And I think having that background has been great for me. But I’m so glad that now I do feel like I know what my strong suits are.
And for me personally, what I really like doing is being the one talking to the tenant and getting them in the unit. I think that’s my strength is what I enjoy the most. I also really like negotiating, trying to get a really it’s talking to people um, I really enjoy talking with people understanding what they want, and make it something that works for both of us. And I think that’s, that works with both acquiring a property as well as finding a good tenant. Because unlike residential, commercial All leasing is more of a negotiation. So what do they want? What do you want? Typically, you want them in there longer, they want to start out shorter. Um, you know, a lot of times they want you to do all of the TI and the build out for them. Well, I don’t really like overseeing the build out, it can be really stressful and complicated, especially when you’re doing a build out to someone else what someone else wants. So there’s a lot of negotiating in there. And and I think, over the past couple of years, I’ve gotten good, a lot better. Not great. I wouldn’t say but a lot better at it, doing what I’m best at just like it sounds like you have and Greg has been huge and pushing me to to not not focus on the things that I don’t enjoy, because I’m not as good at them anyways. Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, I just think that’s such an incredibly important aspect of this, because like, we can’t do it all anyway. So it’s like, we all kind of know, alright, I need to delegate the things I’m not good at. But then, like, the flip side of the same coin, is, if we can identify the things that were magic at and just pull them out and like, make everything kind of centered around those. Then everything, everything changes, I guess, in a better way. Yeah. And so, you know, like, on this show, a lot of our focus is about relationship orientation, working directly with sellers and things like that. And you just mentioned, you know, it’s kind of like, talking to a lot of people. And so one of the questions I was curious is like, how do you feel that you’re, like your likability, your natural ability to kind of connect with people and talk with them? And how do you feel like that has served you overall, in your journey so far?
Alexandra
I mean, I think it’s, I think it’s been huge. And, and really, I do care, too, you know, when I, when tenants move in, and they’re so excited, I am so excited. I mean, it’s so fun for me, and, um, and I think that that’s, you know, my mom is the same way, I think it’s like, we just, if they’re, you’re changing somebody’s life, and, and being able to talk with them, yeah, that’s great. But really, it’s getting them to understand that I also really care. And when talking with sellers, I want them to understand what I’m looking to do, because a lot of times, if you like each other, they want you to do well, too. And I don’t want to be screwing anybody over. And so I think, in general, just being able to communicate in an authentic way where people understand that you really do want to see win win for everybody. I think that’s been really huge. And I’m, and I have learned from people who, who are really good at that as well, both Greg and Rafiq, I think are really got at doing that. And I’ve been able to see that, like exemplified, but I think, naturally, I am very empathetic, and I very much do care about. I just want I want people who want to do well and who are working hard to succeed. And so I think it’s a great position to begin when you’re a landlord, especially for commercial properties.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, yeah, I’m so glad you brought up that word empathy. I feel like this is maybe the single most important word that could could and should be used or focused on a lot, a lot more. And I think unfortunately, people hear the word empathy. within, like, what they’re interpreting is, oh, you’re want me to make this a charity, and I’m charging them only 20 bucks a foot when it should be 24 Because I’m empathetic. And it’s like, no, it’s not about it’s not about it’s not sympathy, it’s not charity. It’s just like, I can put myself in their shoes and think about it from their angle, which now allows me to communicate better with them. And so I’m, I’m shocked. Just sort of in general, in our industry, I feel like I’m shocked by how many people who are just like this is a numbers only thing has nothing to do with emotions or feelings or anything ever. I’m like, well, that’s not You’re not a computer, your cell is not a frickin computer, your tennis on a frickin computer. There are a lot of numbers involved with all this but like you’re never gonna get to any numbers if you’re not like able to connect with another person. And so I love to hear that you feel like that’s been a major part of of what you’ve been doing.
Alexandra
And no matter what, like life happens for people, right? You have tenants who come in together and one of them dies and the other one’s the spouse and like you have to work through these things and having the that good relationship with them and building that. Trust there. I don’t want them I don’t want my husband’s I don’t want for example, I literally just had this right husband wife came they have a little store and went to my first strip mall and Eau Claire. love both of them, he just passed away. So she just called and you know, she’s she’s worried were like, and as a landlord, you can do a lot to relieve like these extra stresses that they have like, don’t worry about late fees, just, you know, take your time do what you need to you better go tenet. I don’t know, like they worry about oh my god, my payment was late. And I didn’t realize it was Don’t worry about it. Like, seriously, I think it’s um, and maybe as you get bigger, it’s harder to do this. But where I’m at right now, I certainly make the final decision. And when life happens, and there’s big things that don’t really affect me, but affect people greatly. Of course, like any normal person, you’re going to work with them. And, and luckily, my partners are on the same page with me. So my brother and Rafiq. They’re my two main partners. And, um, yeah, it’s, it’s definitely relationship based. And I like that a lot. Yeah, yeah. And you’re working with him for years, too. So you really do get to know them. It’s that one year and they’re out of there typically stay there for a long time, even if they initially only sign a one year lease, because it’s new business. Usually they’re renewing. And I like to go visit and yeah, it’s fun.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, I’m glad you said that, too. Because as you were talking about the, the couple with with one of them who passed away, and then giving them some flexibility of sticking about like the difference between, you know, like, the battle in the war, like you could, you could, you can concede a couple of battles, because like you’re winning the war overall, like your your overall relationship with them, is the bigger picture, not whether they pay their late fees this month. The overall health of your building is a reflection of like their long term stability and their know if they do renew your lease. And so like looking at it from a higher 60,000 foot level, as well as just the, you know, just the level of like today and this month, and things like that, and for sure,
Alexandra
and people talk to like, if you’re going to be rude and about landlord, I mean, I know that there’s a lot that you just throw online, but look at it, and then you know, who knows, but and in my mind, I think that my tenants do talk and people who are good landlords and who are slumlords, and even if it’s commercial and not residential, I think it still is, is known. And I always want to be the farmer. So a good good landlord.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah. So to wrap it up, you know, as you were recapping the beginning of your story, and you’re buying some real estate on the side, you’re gonna have on this path, and like, oh, maybe these two things can work together, I’ll just do a little bit of it in my free time. Like, it’s just so relatable, I am sure, just Gosh, everybody listening to this, either. It can relate to that right now. Or like, that’s something that they went through too. But then also where you are now, and especially in the amount of time that that transformation has taken place is not as relatable for people like That’s incredible. So if there are people listening right now, which I’m sure it’s pretty much all of them who are thinking like, oh, my gosh, how do I? How do I do some of the things that Alexandra has done? How do I harness some of that, or get some of that Mojo or make some of that trait of progress and trajectory? What encouragement would you would you give somebody who’s in that, like, you know, I’m trying to get my first couple deals done. They’re small. I got lots of other life things going on another job? Family, maybe stuff like that? Yeah.
Alexandra
Yeah. Don’t talk yourself out of it. I think people get there. And then they get scared. And I, I get frustrated with us, because people call me and they’re like, oh, you know, can I pick your brain? Or can we talk and, and they’re all excited about and they want to, but you can’t make excuses. Because if you’re gonna make excuses, it’s just never going to happen. So I think it’s just, yeah, it’s scary. And you’re never going to know what you’re getting into until you’re into it. But nobody that’s doing it is even though as before that, you know, things change every time, nothing has been the same. None of these deals have been the same. No, none of the problems have really been the same. You are still figuring out as you go. And so I think it’s just stop talking yourself out of it. Because that’s people do. Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Stephens
I love that. It’s funny. So I’ve been on the interviewer side. I’m like, we’re gonna take some little clip from this interview. And it’s gonna be the thing the place at the very beginning of the episode. It’s like the teaser that sort of captures the spirit. And and that what you just said, it’s totally, it’s totally that don’t talk yourself out of it. I love. I love that. I think some of the things you just alluded to one of the silly things I geek out on thinking about the difference between an investor and an entrepreneur. And I tend to think entrepreneur are the more of the ones who do what you just described, which is like, I know, I’m gonna encounter all sorts of stuff I’ve never faced before, but we’re going to figure it out. We’re going to make the most of it. We’re going to create value in these ways. And so I just, I love that so much.
Alexandra
Well, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I get it. It’s, it’s scary for it was scary for me. It was scary for you. It’s, it’s scary for everybody. But if you want to do it, everyone’s everyone’s able to do it. So yeah, yeah.
Jeff Stephens
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with us. And it’s even act as a consultant to me and helping me get more commercial. But it’s, it’s it’s so exciting what you have done. And I feel like so challenged in all the right ways, and inspired by it. So thank you so much for being that for us.
Alexandra
Thank you. And yeah, I mean, I really appreciate being here. I’ve listened to this before as far as Mike and we Yeah, we’re really excited to have to speak on that as well. Thank you.
Jeff Stephens
Well, there you have it, my conversation with Alexandra hater and amazing real estate broker and most importantly, entrepreneur, doing incredible things and growing and challenging all of us to just continue to pursue growth being the Grail, sameness, being the enemy, as our mentor Greg Pineo says, and so I hope you enjoy that as much as I did.
That is it for today’s episode of Racking Up Rentals. Again, show notes for today’s episode are at www.thoughtfulre.com/e196. Please do us a big favor by hitting that subscribe button would be so appreciated. And if you would rate and review this show just real quickly, doesn’t have to be long or eloquent. Just a rating there and a couple words would be super, super helpful and very appreciated.
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Thanks for listening to Racking Up Rentals where we build long term wealth by being win-win dealmakers. Remember: solve the person to unlock the deal and solve the financing to unlock the profits.
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